D&D 5E Concentration mechanic can ruin plots in adventures

[CleverNickName]

Players might complain about it, but I don't have a problem with the Concentration mechanic in 5E. Like the 3-item limit on attuned magic items, I think it's an important check-and-balance against power creep and repetitive tactics.

If nothing else, it pumped the brakes on that whole "scry-buff-teleport" treadmill of 3rd Edition that I hated so much.

 

[Helldritch]

Wow, making Excapode and 18th level wizard would make him a god compared to what he is supposed to be. The difficulty as I said earlier, isn't to beat him. It is to do it without killing innocents (the group that were charmed).

 

[Lanefan]

It should never be done without the player's knowledge, of course, but even in the 5E core rulebooks there are one or two places where it says something to the effect of "the PC goes insane and is now an NPC under the DM's control".

Yeah, I've read that and it rubs me the wrong way every time.

I'd far rather it say something like "... the PC goes insane. The player may continue playing it as such (though be advised doing so could present a severe challenge both in roleplaying and in continuing to adventure) or may hand the character over to the DM as an NPC."

Plan B might be comething like "... the PC goes insane and thus becomes unplayable." No transfer of ownership stated or implied here, but perhaps too absolute to handle situations where the player in fact wants to try playing the insane PC.

So it's not exactly unprecedented. It's effectively just character death with extra bells and whistles.

Even a dead character is still mine. Relevant if - and this has happened to me - other PCs ever visit the land of the dead and run into it.

 

[Helldritch]

Players might complain about it, but I don't have a problem with the Concentration mechanic in 5E. Like the 3-item limit on attuned magic items, I think it's an important check-and-balance against power creep and repetitive tactics.

If nothing else, it pumped the brakes on that whole "scry-buff-teleport" treadmill of 3rd Edition that I hated so much.

Never did I say that I hated the concentration mechanic. Far from it. But it was put into a lot spells that does allow a save every round. Concentration mechanic is great for certain spells like haste, bless, and many others. But for some offensive spells like hold person which does allow a save every round, I think it's a bit too much to have both concentration and a save every round. A spell should be restricted by one or the other. Not both.

Concentration stops the bloating numbers that we saw in previous editions and I thank god for that mechanic. On the other hand, too much of a good thing can spoil the broth.

 

[Lanefan]

If nothing else, it pumped the brakes on that whole "scry-buff-teleport" treadmill of 3rd Edition that I hated so much.

Simplest way to bust that one up is to put the risk of instant death back in to Teleport, like 1e had, by arriving in solid rock beneath your intended arrival point.

They'll still use it, but only when they really have to and are willing to take the risk.

 

[CleverNickName]

Everyone's game will be different, for sure. At my table, the 3-item limit combined with the concentration spell restriction is working great. It's a marked improvement over the earlier editions.

 

[Oofta]

From a worldbuilding standpoint, it raises the question of how common 18th-level wizards are, and whether the status and power level of an 18th-level wizard is consistent with this NPC's characterization as (so I understand it) a nobody and pushover.

Not saying the guy should be an 18th level wizard. Just that I wouldn't automatically make him a 10th level wizard because he was one in the old mod.

Same way I would convert any monster from a mod : decide what the CR of the creature should be and find a similar monster or tweak something to fit. Basically use the theme of the old mod as a starting point but redo challenges to be appropriate level.

So maybe use the conjurer from VGTM a CR 6 caster (lvl 9) and change their spells. Or whatever threat level is appropriate.

 

[NotAYakk]

Wow, making Excapode and 18th level wizard would make him a god compared to what he is supposed to be. The difficulty as I said earlier, isn't to beat him. It is to do it without killing innocents (the group that were charmed).

In 3e he was a 10th level wizard. That is a god compared to a 5e 18th level wizard.

A 10th level wizard is a CR 10 foe by RAW. But 3e wizard are tougher than other classes by level 10. So call it CR 13.

Which is 2^7=128 times stronger than a CR 1/2 foe (a simple grunt).

In 5e, a CR 12 creature is roughly equivalent to 15-20 guards (CR 1/8).

The reason why the level 10 enchanter all by themselves can cause chaos in an entire city is that they are ridiculously powerful. A level 10 enchanter in 5e is not that ridiculously powerful. Treating a level 10 wizard as a not a big power is what makes no sense in 3e; someone who by themselves is worth 100 trained and geared soldiers is a very strong being.

If you want to port this to 5e, the power scale involved is post-20 for PCs. Inventing level 10 spells that let you mass mind control over near unlimited periods of time without concentration would be appropriate. And then this enchanter would be following PC rules.

 

[S'mon]

Since Charm Person does not require Concentration, the OP seems like a non-sequitur?

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[Gadget]

While I find the philosophical debate on PC creation vs NPC creation and world building interesting, and I of course have a strong preference in this area, I think it safe to say that spells like Suggestion, Mass Suggestion, Geas and the like can suit the OP's needs. There is also the option of certain magic items, potions and Dark Rituals (TM) to enhance certain abilities. The mage in question could have stumbled upon an cursed item, been corrupted by forbidden knowledge or demonic taint that drove him mad while giving him certain abilities. All of which would be options that the PCs would not want to take (even if they could duplicate) or would find unsavory.

This could lead to further adventures as the PC's, after having disposed of this "schmuck" find clues to a deeper, more dangerous threat/ritual/rising demon that corrupted the original wizard, along with a few more mundane spells from his spell book like Suggestion or Geas and the like.