Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[freyar]

Brood (4-8, typically 2-4 pairs).
Let's say Usually NE.
Advancement 8-12HD (Large) I guess. I don't really feel like having them get bigger.

Also, weren't we going to make them monstrous humanoids rather than magical beasts?

 

[Cleon]

Brood (4-8, typically 2-4 pairs).
Let's say Usually NE.

The first two are OK by me.

Updating the Gladiator Lizard.

Advancement 8-12HD (Large) I guess. I don't really feel like having them get bigger.

While I agree on not making them bigger, I'd prefer 8–16 HD (Large) or perhaps 8–20 HD (Large).

There's precedent for 3E monsters advancing to over double their base HD without an increase in size.

Also, weren't we going to make them monstrous humanoids rather than magical beasts?

I vaguely recall a fair bit of to-and-froing over the type, including the notion that the Lizard was a Magical Beast and the Bleak One was a Monstrous Humanoid.

Would you prefer Monstrous Humanoid? It'd be a fairly simple change, just:

Large Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 7d8+35 (66 hp)
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +6
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Cleaveᴮ, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Power Attackᴮ, Weapon Specialization (talon)ᴮ, Weapon Focus (talon)ᴮ​

 

[freyar]

Sure, I'd prefer 8-16 HD, but I don't mind 8-20 HD if you really want.

Here are the important quotes on type, but it didn't make it to the working draft:

Updating the Gladiator Lizard Working Draft.



Hmm, Magical Beast doesn't feels right.

The humanoid being that "projects from an egg" to geas victims to the Bleak Shore doesn't seem like a supernatural animal, and the Lizard is described as resembling an oversized armored human.

I'd go for either Monstrous Humanoid or Outsider (Native), depending on whether you want it to have Good Fortitude saves and lots of skills or not.

Monstrous Humanoid for the gladiator lizards, I guess. If you want to stat up egg guy, I could see a Native Outsider. I still think he's a different species. Does that work for you?

I definitely prefer Monstrous Humanoid (and that was my first instinct, too).

 

[Cleon]

Sure, I'd prefer 8-16 HD, but I don't mind 8-20 HD if you really want.

Let's use the eight to sixteen version then.

Updating the Gladiator Lizard.

Here are the important quotes on type, but it didn't make it to the working draft:

I definitely prefer Monstrous Humanoid (and that was my first instinct, too).

I did find the Outsider (Native) proposal slightly tempting too, but that'd require a bit more work as we'd need to change the Skills too.

Perhaps:

Large Outsider
Hit Dice: 7d8+35 (66 hp)
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +8
Feats: Balance +10, Climb +14, Hide +8, Intimidate +11, Listen +11, Move Silently +12, Spot +11, Survival +11, Swim +14
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Cleaveᴮ, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attackᴮ, Weapon Specialization (talon)ᴮ, Weapon Focus (talon)ᴮ​

Would be OK with the above Monstrous Humanoid too.

 

[freyar]

Let's go with Monstrous Humanoid for the lizards and Native Outsider for the Egg Guy (even if he's a Bleak One, he will forever be Egg Guy for me). We could give the lizards the (extraplanar) subtype, I guess.

CR 6 I guess. They're a little better than a girallon but not as good as a hill giant, I think.

 

[Cleon]

Let's go with Monstrous Humanoid for the lizards and Native Outsider for the Egg Guy (even if he's a Bleak One, he will forever be Egg Guy for me). We could give the lizards the (extraplanar) subtype, I guess.

As mentioned earlier, I think we can stat Egg Guy as a hazard so it doesn't actually need a type.

The lizards definitely shouldn't have the Extraplanar subtype as they are Prime Material entities of some kind as far as I know.

No need to make them vulnerable to exorcism!

Updating the Gladiator Lizard.

 

[Cleon]

CR 6 I guess. They're a little better than a girallon but not as good as a hill giant, I think.

My initial gut reaction is Gladiator Lizards are more like Challenge Rating 5.

Combat wise they've really only got their unusually high Armour Class going for them.

Potential damage output is much worse than a Girallon: 2d10+16 vs 10d4+1d8+36, or 27 vs 65½ if we ignore the odds of a critical. That's 242.59% the damage of a Gladiator Lizard.

The Lizard does hit more often with its +13 melee though, or +15 with Hive Mind and a double-teaming brood mate.

So is 6 points more AC and a bit higher odds to hit equivalent to 140% more damage?

Hmm, they would approximately balance if a typical melee opponent had a 25% chance of hitting the Lizard, as they'd then have a 55% chance of hitting a Girallon for 1/2.2 times the DPR. That'd mean a hit roll of 16+ or an opponent with +7 to hit. That is a slightly low for a 6th-level combat specialist though.

Well their various fighter feats give them ways to boost their DPR using Combat Reflexes or Cleave to get an extra attack or two, and they can Power Attack soft targets to raise the damage.

Guess that could nudge them over the line to Challenge Rating 6.

How about a Large Earth Elemental as a comparison? That's CR 5. A Large Gnome has similar HP, is pretty tough (AC 18 and DR 5 might eyeball as roughly equivalent to AC 23) and does slightly more damage (4d8+14 for 32 on average) with a bit less accuracy (+12 melee).

It has much worse saves than a Gladiator Lizard though, which should count for something.

Hmm… having trouble deciding.

They could be a weak CR 6 or a strong CR 5.

 

[freyar]

Eh, let's make them a tough CR 5.

Anything particular about tactics from the book? I think I'd just emphasize that they usually try to gang up on a single opponent at a time to take advantage of their hive mind.

 

[Cleon]

Eh, let's make them a tough CR 5.

That works for me.

Updating the Gladiator Lizard.

Anything particular about tactics from the book? I think I'd just emphasize that they usually try to gang up on a single opponent at a time to take advantage of their hive mind.

How's this:

A gladiator lizard seeks to close to melee as soon as possible. Brood-mates usually attack the same opponent to take advantage of their hive mind.

These creatures may appear brutish, but they are actually smarter than many humanoids and will use combat tactics such as feints, ambushes and distractions when they think those would be advantageous. As they lack manipulative appendages, they cannot use equipment or operate devices, but they can understand what they do and account for their use by enemies.

Gladiator lizards are extravagantly ferocious and rarely run from a fight, but have been known to retreat in order to lure a foe into some disadvantageous position.​

 

[freyar]

I like it!

Any thoughts on description or flavor? Should we perhaps save some of the flavor until after we do the Bleak One to tie them together?