Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

[freyar]

Half damage to the plant, I think.

But should it be anything in reach or anything that just walks through? Hmm. I guess if we think of it hanging from a trellis or something, we mean reach. I'm also not sure I like the use of "immobilized." Entangled is probably sufficient and wouldn't raise as many questions (how can an immobilized creature attack? etc).

 

[Shade]

A good start, guys!

The "immobilized" condition isn't in the SRD, is it? I believe it was added quite late in the 3.5 days.

I can live without traditional attacks for these things, just relying on the strangling vines.

Also, if they're truly strangling victims, we should borrow from the choker...

"Because it seizes its victim by the neck, a creature in the choker’s grasp cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components."

 

[Cleon]

Half damage to the plant, I think.

But should it be anything in reach or anything that just walks through? Hmm. I guess if we think of it hanging from a trellis or something, we mean reach. I'm also not sure I like the use of "immobilized." Entangled is probably sufficient and wouldn't raise as many questions (how can an immobilized creature attack? etc).

Funny, I was sure the original version had its vines creeping towards its victims, but reading the entry again it's just "attempts to entangle any individual moving into or through it". The vines are up to 20 feet long though, so may stretch out some distance from the plant's stem.

So I can see two main choices:

Option 1:
Cut the Advancement to Large and give Medium and larger specimens Improved Reach?

e.g.:

Strangle Vine
Small Plant
Space/Reach: 5 ft./0 ft. (5 ft. with strangling vines)
Advancement: 2-3 HD (Medium); 4-8 HD (Large)

Medium Strangle Vine
Space/Reach: 5 ft./0 ft. (10 ft. with strangling vines)

Large Strangle Vine
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft. (20 ft. with strangling vines)

Option 2:
Drop the reach and just have it attack creatures that enter its Space while keeping the Advancement up to Colossal. That would seem to be a better fit to the original description.

Strangle Vine
Small Plant
Space/Reach: 5 ft./0 ft.

I think I prefer the second option.

As for the "immobilized" bit I was having some trouble with that to, but wasn't sure what to say - the best I can come up with is "cannot move out of the space they where in when the vines seized them"

Revising...

Strangling Vines (Ex): Any creature that enters the space [reach] of a strangle vine must succeed at a DC10 Reflex save or be seized by its vines. If they succeed, they must check again every round they remain within the plant's space [reach]. Seized creatures are entangled, cannot move out of the space they where in when the vines seized them, and take 1d4 damage (plus Strength bonus, if any) per round from being "strangled". Any creature in a strangle vine's grasp cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components, because the vines seize the victim's head and neck and try forcing their way down the victim's throat. A seized creature can escape by succeeding at a DC14 Strength check or a DC14 Escape Artist check. They can also break free by killing the strangle vine or cutting the vines that hold them; the vines are AC13 and have 4 hit points (8 hp for Medium strangle vines, 12 hp for Large, 18 hp for Huge, 24 hp for Gargantuan and 30 hp for Colossal). Severing the vines does half the vines' hit points in damage to the main plant. The save DCs are Strength-based and include a +4 racial bonus on the Strength and Escape Artist checks.

That looks OK to me.

I'm also wondering about expanding the Organisation to allow for groups. Something like:

Organization: Solitary; gallows (2-5) or copse (4-40)

 

[Cleon]

Also, if they're truly strangling victims, we should borrow from the choker...

"Because it seizes its victim by the neck, a creature in the choker’s grasp cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components."

I'm a bit divided on that.

They don't seem very mobile and I'm presuming they're blind, so how do they even know were the victim's neck is, let alone hit it accurately?

Hmm, maybe they can smell the carbon dioxide in the victim's breath, and try to stick their vines down their throat?

I like that idea!

I'll revise my last post to include a cutting off speech/verbal spells bit.

Where are you on the "Space or Reach" question regarding the area the strangling covers?

EDIT: Oh, I've also added mention of a strength bonus to the strangling damage.

I'm also having second thoughts about giving it the bludgeoning type. It seems a bit inappropriate, maybe make it untyped?

Hmm, slow suffocation causes untyped nonlethal damage, to making it untyped makes sense to me.

I'll cut out the bludgeoning.

 

[freyar]

Cleon's new draft is starting to look ok, though a little wordy.

I can't find immobilized as a condition in the SRD, though I may just have missed it.

 

[Shade]

FWIW, here's how it appears in Tome of Magic:

Immobilized: The immobilized condition prevents a creature from moving from the space in which it starts its turn. An immobilized creature can attack and cast spells, and it keeps its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class. Flying creatures that become immobilized can control their descent so they don't take falling damage, but they are incapable of moving from their current space until the condition ends, descending at a rate of 20 feet per round. If an immobilized flying creature can hover, it maintains its altitude, but it still can't move from its space until the condition ends.

 

[freyar]

Ah, that would be just about right. Too bad we can't seem to use it, as it would be a bit of a mouthful. Maybe entangled, but not easy to escape.

 

[Cleon]

FWIW, here's how it appears in Tome of Magic:

Immobilized: The immobilized condition prevents a creature from moving from the space in which it starts its turn. An immobilized creature can attack and cast spells, and it keeps its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class. Flying creatures that become immobilized can control their descent so they don't take falling damage, but they are incapable of moving from their current space until the condition ends, descending at a rate of 20 feet per round. If an immobilized flying creature can hover, it maintains its altitude, but it still can't move from its space until the condition ends.

That isn't OGL I believe, so I guess we're stuck with the "wordy" version.

Any thoughts about the "Reach or Space" question?

 

[freyar]

Well, if space is really a 5ft cube, I think I like space.

 

[Cleon]

Well, if space is really a 5ft cube, I think I like space.

That's fine by me!

That means we've currently got the following. I've broken the Strangling vines up into 3 paragraphs to make it a bit more legible:

Strangle Vine
Small Plant
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 (8 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 0 ft. (immobile)
Armor Class: 11 (+1 size), touch 11, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-4
Attack: —
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 5 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Strangling vines
Special Qualities: Blind, plant traits, tremorsense 20 ft.
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 12, Con 13, Int --, Wis 8, Cha 3
Skills: —
Feats: Toughness (B)
Environment: Warm or temperate woods and swamps
Organization: Solitary; gallows (2-5) or copse (4-40)
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Treasure: 1/10th coins; 50% goods; 50% items
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 2-3 HD (Medium); 4-8 HD (Large); 9-15 HD (Huge); 16-24 HD (Gargantuan); 25-36 HD (Colossal)
Level Adjustment: —

Combat

Strangling Vines (Ex): Any creature that enters the space of a strangle vine must succeed at a DC10 Reflex save or be seized by its vines. If they succeed, they must check again every round they remain within the plant's space.

Seized creatures are entangled, cannot move out of the space they where standing in when the vines seized them, and take 1d4 damage (plus Strength bonus, if any) per round from being "strangled". Any creature in a strangle vine's grasp cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components, because the vines wrap round their head and neck and try forcing themselves down their victim's throat.

A seized creature can escape by succeeding at a DC14 Strength check or a DC14 Escape Artist check. They can also break free by killing the strangle vine or cutting the vines that hold them; the vines are AC13 and have 4 hit points (8 hp for Medium strangle vines, 12 hp for Large, 18 hp for Huge, 24 hp for Gargantuan and 30 hp for Colossal). Severing the vines does half the vines' hit points in damage to the main plant. The DCs are Strength-based and include a +4 racial bonus on the Strength and Escape Artist checks.