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Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
In that case, I'd be happy with the versions of ferocity and morale that you have in post 1159. You could probably convince me of the boosted version, as well. ;) In fact, they can't use these too much, so let's just go with the boosted versions.

Ferocity: A caprine with a resonance score of 1 or more can use music to inspire ferocity in its allies (not including itself), improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the caprine play a musical instrument. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the caprine's music. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls. Ferocity is a mind-affecting ability.

Morale: A caprine with a resonance score of 1 or more can use music to inspire bravery in its allies (not including itself), improving their morale. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the caprine play a musical instrument. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the caprine's music. An affected ally receives a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and charm effects. Ferocity is a mind-affecting ability.

Next up would be damper. The original is
Damper: negates an attack relying on sound, such as the song of harpies, fear-instilling roars, etc. It also soothes shriekers and keeps them silent. (BECMI only*)
This wouldn't quite be like silence, and I'm not sure if it's something that works like a counterspell, lasts for a round, or lasts as long as the caprine performs. Any thoughts?
 

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Cleon

Adventurer
In that case, I'd be happy with the versions of ferocity and morale that you have in post 1159. You could probably convince me of the boosted version, as well. ;) In fact, they can't use these too much, so let's just go with the boosted versions.

Ferocity: A caprine with a resonance score of 1 or more can use music to inspire ferocity in its allies (not including itself), improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the caprine play a musical instrument. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the caprine's music. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls. Ferocity is a mind-affecting ability.

Morale: A caprine with a resonance score of 1 or more can use music to inspire bravery in its allies (not including itself), improving their morale. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the caprine play a musical instrument. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the caprine's music. An affected ally receives a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and charm effects. Ferocity is a mind-affecting ability.
Updating the Resonance Working Draft.

Next up would be damper. The original is

Damper: negates an attack relying on sound, such as the song of harpies, fear-instilling roars, etc. It also soothes shriekers and keeps them silent. (BECMI only*)

This wouldn't quite be like silence, and I'm not sure if it's something that works like a counterspell, lasts for a round, or lasts as long as the caprine performs. Any thoughts?
Surely this is just a Bard's countersong ability?

Countersong (Su): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components). Each round of the countersong, he makes a Perform check. Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard’s Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within range of the countersong is already under the effect of a noninstantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the countersong, but it must use the bard’s Perform check result for the save. Countersong has no effect against effects that don’t allow saves. The bard may keep up the countersong for 10 rounds.

So how about:

Damper: A caprine with a resonance score of 6 or more can play music to counter magical effects that depend on sound. Each round a caprine uses damper they make a Perform check with their musical instrument. Any creature within 30 feet of the caprine (including the caprine) who is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the caprine's Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within damper range is already under the effect of a noninstantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the damper, but it must use the caprine's Perform check result for the save. Damper has no effect against effects that don’t allow saves. A caprine may use damper for as long as they roll the musical instrument's Perform check each round, but once they stop playing the instrument a caprine can not use damper again until their resonance score is replenished.

Or alternatively.

Damper: A caprine with a resonance score of 6 or more can use music to counter magical effects that depend on sound. This works like a bard's countersong ability except the caprine must use a musical instrument for the Perform check.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ugh, I knew there was something I should have been thinking of! Yes. Countersong! Let's just go with your latter choice there.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Ugh, I knew there was something I should have been thinking of! Yes. Countersong! Let's just go with your latter choice there.
Updating the Resonance Working Draft.

Okay, it's taunt next.

The original description is "Taunt: foes within a 40' radius must save vs spell or charge toward the caprine to interrupt his offending music. The caprine may keep on playing if more potential victims are expected to show up."

So maybe have it work like a downpowered version of the Captivating Song of a Harpy, were the victims can move and act normally so long as it's in an effort to approach the caprine or stop them playing? i.e. no rushing over cliffs or failing to attack enemies who try to kill them.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I completely agree with basing this on the harpy. But what if they just charge on their next turn?

Taunt:
All of the caprine's enemies within a 40-foot radius must succeed on a DC X Will save or become enraged. This is a sonic mind-affecting charm effect. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same caprine’s taunt for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.
An enraged victim charges the caprine, taking the most direct route available. If the path leads into a dangerous area (through flame, off a cliff, or the like), the victim shakes off the taunt with no need for a new saving throw. Enraged creatures will try to attack the caprine in an attempt to interrupt its offensive music, but can attack any other creatures that attack them. The effect continues for as long as the caprine sings. A bard’s countersong ability allows the enraged creature to attempt a new Will save.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I completely agree with basing this on the harpy. But what if they just charge on their next turn?
Yes, using Charge sounds workable.

Taunt:
All of the caprine's enemies within a 40-foot radius must succeed on a DC X Will save or become enraged. This is a sonic mind-affecting charm effect. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same caprine’s taunt for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.
An enraged victim charges the caprine, taking the most direct route available. If the path leads into a dangerous area (through flame, off a cliff, or the like), the victim shakes off the taunt with no need for a new saving throw. Enraged creatures will try to attack the caprine in an attempt to interrupt its offensive music, but can attack any other creatures that attack them. The effect continues for as long as the caprine sings. A bard’s countersong ability allows the enraged creature to attempt a new Will save.
Hmm… that looks a good start. I'd clean up the phrasing a bit and clarify that the taunt affects new enemies who enter the zone of effect.

I'm also thinking that if another creature attacks (or maybe injures?) a taunted creature it should break the effect.

How's this:

All enemies within 40 feet of the caprine must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC DC 10 + ½ caprine's level + caprine's Cha modifier) or become enraged. This is a sonic mind-affecting charm effect. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same caprine’s taunt for 24 hours. Enraged victims charge to attack the caprine in an attempt to interrupt its offensive music, taking the most direct route available. Taunted creatures can attack creatures or obstacles that obstruct their approach to the caprine. The taunt effect is automatically broken if another creature injures the victim or if the path to the caprine leads into a dangerous area (flames, off a cliff, or the like). A bard’s countersong ability allows a taunted victim to attempt a new Will save. The effect continues for as long as the caprine sings, affecting new enemies who enter the taunt's area of effect.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
That works!

Do we have that an injured caprine needs to succeed at a Concentration check to use these abilities when injured? If not, we should probably add that to Taunt, since the enraged victims are trying to injure the caprine to end the taunting, after all.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
That works!

Do we have that an injured caprine needs to succeed at a Concentration check to use these abilities when injured? If not, we should probably add that to Taunt, since the enraged victims are trying to injure the caprine to end the taunting, after all.
No we did not, I'll add "Using this ability requires Concentration" to the description.

I'll also add a "Resonance" version of the Bardic Concentration rules to the power, i.e.:

Starting a resonance effect is a standard action. Some resonance abilities require concentration, which means the caprine must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a caprine cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word. Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf caprine has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use resonance. If they fails, the attempt still counts against their daily limit.

Updating the Resonance Working Draft.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
OK, that's all good. I feel like ferocity and morale should also require concentration; what do you think?

How's this?
Cause/Remove Fear: By singing or playing a single note or chord, the caprine affects all creatures within 40 ft with the effects of the cause fear or remove fear spell, expect that creatures that fail the Will save are frightened for one round per HD of the caprine. The save DC is Cha-based. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
OK, that's all good. I feel like ferocity and morale should also require concentration; what do you think?
I think I'll disagree.

The Bard's Inspire Courage ability does not require concentration just that the ally be able to hear their inspiring music.

So I'd say the Caprine ability it's based on ought to be the same - the goatperson just needs to keep on playing their musical instrument.

How's this?
Cause/Remove Fear: By singing or playing a single note or chord, the caprine affects all creatures within 40 ft with the effects of the cause fear or remove fear spell, expect that creatures that fail the Will save are frightened for one round per HD of the caprine. The save DC is Cha-based. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
There's nothing about "singing or playing a single note" in the original text. It should require the caprine play an instrument like is standard for resonance powers and it's presumably a standard action, while "single note" suggests a swift or even free action.

Also, the phrasing "the effects of the cause fear or remove fear spell" is a little confusing since it could be interpreted as the caprine being able to produce both effects simultaneously.

Furthermore, creatures with 6 or more HD are immune to the 3E cause fear spell, so should we include that rule? Or the one that creatures who make their save against cause fear are shaken for 1 round?

The original BECMI cause fear just makes the target flee for 2 turns if they fail or does nothing if they save, while the AD&D version makes them flee for 1 round per level.

How about:

Cause/Remove Fear: A caprine with a resonance score of 11 or more can play a tune that inspires courage or terror in all creatures within 40 feet of the caprine. A "terror" tune affects enemies who hear it like a cause fear spell, while a "courage" tune affects allies who hear it like a remove fear spell. Note that creatures with 6 or more HD are immune to the cause fear spell. Treat this power as if it were a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to the caprine's Hit Dice and a Will save DC equal to 11 plus the caprine's Charisma modifier. The fear or courage effect lasts for 1 round per HD of the caprine. This is a mind-affecting fear ability.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I can go with your version of cause/remove fear. Though my intent on the "single note" was just to say that the caprine only had to spend the 1 standard action to trigger it and didn't have to keep up the music beyond the first round.

But I'm going to dig in on concentration for ferocity and morale. The "Benefits of Resonance" section of the original document says "If it sustains [damage?] from an attack. The caprine's music is interrupted and its effect ends. [sic]" That's actually stricter than requiring concentration.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I can go with your version of cause/remove fear. Though my intent on the "single note" was just to say that the caprine only had to spend the 1 standard action to trigger it and didn't have to keep up the music beyond the first round.
Updating the Resonance Working Draft.

But I'm going to dig in on concentration for ferocity and morale. The "Benefits of Resonance" section of the original document says "If it sustains [damage?] from an attack. The caprine's music is interrupted and its effect ends. [sic]"
Yes, I realize where the issue comes from.

I'd rather not require concentration for abilities where the equivalent bardic abilities does not need concentration. The caprine's abilities are so obviously based on a Bard's it would seem odd not having them match. The Concentration issue is pretty much down to the change of edition between BECMI and 3rd Edition D&D.

So I'd say the caprine powers of charm, march to war, sound of death, taunt and probably killer cheese require concentration, but not covet, damper, fear/remove fear, ferocity, morale or sleep.

If pressed, I might agree to having the Caprine need to make a Concentration-dependent standard action or full-round action to START the ferocity/morale effect but have the remainder of the duration not require Concentration, but even is a stretch from the 3E precedent.

That would at least match the original text's "The caprine needs to play his instrument for one round for dungeon encounters" since it's the instrument-playing that can be interrupted in the original rules.

That's actually stricter than requiring concentration.
Actually it isn't stricter, but is pretty much the core of the BECMI/AD&D concentration rules, under which if you take any damage your concentration is automatically broken.

Spellcasters got it a lot easier in 3E. It's one of the many reasons they became such an unbalanced class, almost as significant as 3E's spell DCs vs Saving Throws scaling.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Hmmm. I think I can go with your proposal of the full round action with Concentration "start up" for ferocity and morale. As for "stricter," I did mean with respect to 3.X.

So, Concentration for charm, march to war, sound of death, taunt and killer cheese, full round starting with Concentration for ferocity and morale, and not for the rest?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Hmmm. I think I can go with your proposal of the full round action with Concentration "start up" for ferocity and morale. As for "stricter," I did mean with respect to 3.X.

So, Concentration for charm, march to war, sound of death, taunt and killer cheese, full round starting with Concentration for ferocity and morale, and not for the rest?
That'd work for me.

How about this for the revised ferocity & morale:

Ferocity: A caprine with a resonance score of 1 or more can play a musical instrument and inspire ferocity in its allies (not including itself), improving their combat abilities. The caprine must concentrate the first round they use this ability but does not need to maintain concentration to continue playing on subsequent rounds. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the caprine's ferocious tune. Affected allies receive a +1 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the caprine's music. Ferocity is a mind-affecting ability.

Morale: A caprine with a resonance score of 1 or more can play a musical instrument to inspire bravery in its allies (not including itself), improving their morale. The caprine must concentrate the first round they use this ability but does not need to maintain concentration to continue playing on subsequent rounds. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the caprine's courageous tune. Affected allies receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and charm effects. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the caprine's music. Ferocity is a mind-affecting ability.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Come to think of it, shouldn't most of these abilities have a "sonic" tag?

They all require audible music to function apart from mask.

Speaking of which, I'm not sure how playing a musical instrument allows one to change your face but it's magic, it doesn't have to make sense!
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Those look good, and I agree that they should all be sonic.

I'll try to get back to this one soon. I'm too tired to think straight at the moment, but I want to get this posted.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Those look good, and I agree that they should all be sonic.

I'll try to get back to this one soon. I'm too tired to think straight at the moment, but I want to get this posted.
Updating the Resonance Working Draft.

NOTE: I added the sonic, mind-affecting and compulsion tags to the current resonance abilities where appropriate plus "reminder notes" for the upcoming abilities.
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
OK, I've totally lost track of where we are on this, but I think we can move to the next ability, which would be charm.

The original text is
Charm: non-associated members within a 40' radius must save versus spell or be charmed and sit entranced while the caprine keeps on playing. The effect lasts as long as the caprine plays. (BECMI only*)
This actually seems more like the effects of the hypnotism spell. So something like
Charm: A caprine with a resonance score of 11 or more can play a tune that fascinates all creatures within 40 feet of the caprine. The caprine can choose to exclude any creature within range from this effect. Treat this power as if it were a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to the caprine's Hit Dice and a Will save to negate with DC equal to 11 plus the caprine's Charisma modifier. The fascination effect lasts for as long as caprine maintains concentration on its music. This is a mind-affecting sonic ability.
?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
OK, I've totally lost track of where we are on this, but I think we can move to the next ability, which would be charm.

The original text is


This actually seems more like the effects of the hypnotism spell. So something like
Charm: A caprine with a resonance score of 11 or more can play a tune that fascinates all creatures within 40 feet of the caprine. The caprine can choose to exclude any creature within range from this effect. Treat this power as if it were a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to the caprine's Hit Dice and a Will save to negate with DC equal to 11 plus the caprine's Charisma modifier. The fascination effect lasts for as long as caprine maintains concentration on its music. This is a mind-affecting sonic ability.
?
I'd just duplicate or modify the bard's fascinate ability since that's the official 3E version of AD&D Bardic Charm ability. The main differences of the caprine's version are the range (40 feet not 90) and number of targets (all non-allies not 1 plus 1 per 3 levels above 1st).
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I'll agree to using bardic fascinate with those modifications. I'm not sure why I always forget to check those abilities.... But it ends up working pretty similarly. Want to stick something in the working draft for consideration?

Next up would be sleep, which is just as the sleep spell, not empowered. I guess they have to play a lullaby! Any thoughts on this one? Here's a draft, though 4HD feels light to me:
Sleep: A caprine with a resonance score of 11 or more can play a lullaby that puts up to 4HD into a magical slumber. Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first. Among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell’s point of origin are affected first. Hit Dice that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted. Sleeping creatures are helpless. Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action).
Sleep does not target unconscious creatures, constructs, or undead creatures. Sleep is a mind-affecting sonic compulsion ability.
 

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