Converting prehistoric animals

[Shade]

BOZ--Is this thread working differently than the other conversion threads? Are we converting multiple monsters at once?

 

[demiurge1138]

Boz, just so you know, Apatosaurus is in the .doc I sent you. Just another reminder.

RE Shade: There really doesn't seem to be too much of a pattern to the conversion's timing (1 vs multiple). I think that the thread will settle soon enough, though.

Demiurge out.

 

[BOZ]

First of all, stats from the 1E monster manual (I know there were some 2E stats, I’ll get those later if they’re notably different):

Apatosaurus (Brontosaurus)
FREQUENCY: Common
NO. APPEARING: 1-6
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVE: 6”
HIT DICE: 30
% IN LAIR: Nil
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 3-18
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: L (70’ long)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
Attack/Defense Modes: Nil

The thunder-lizard is a 40 ton plant-eater found near marshes and lakes. The creature spends much of his time in shallow water to support his bulk. It moves to deep water to avoid carnivores. Apatosaurus ignores small things, but it is prone to step on anything in its way (doing 4-40 points of damage).


Hey, I thought I heard somewhere that that “support bulk in water” thing was so much BS, because it uses its tail for balance. Feel free to inject as much current scientific theory into this as you like, but let’s not get too bogged down in science – it’s just a game, after all.


And here is demiurge’s version:


Dinosaur, Apatosaurus (Brontosaurus)
Colossal Animal
Hit Dice: 20d8+166 (256 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 20ft (4 squares)
Armor Class: 12 (-8 size, +10 natural), touch 2, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+43
Attack: Tail slam +19 melee (3d8+18 plus thunderous snap)
Full Attack: Tail slam +19 melee (3d8+18 plus thunderous snap)
Space/Reach: 60ft/40ft
Special Attacks: Thunderous snap, trample 6d8+18
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +23, Ref +12, Will +8
Abilities: Str 34, Dex 11, Con 27, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +12, Spot +19
Feats: Alertness, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Toughness (x2)
Environment: Warm forests, plains and hills
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 21-60 HD (Colossal)
Level Advancement: -

This massive quadruped has a very long neck and tail, a horse-like head, a wrinkled, elephantine hide and a small row of colorful spines lining its back, like those of an iguana.

The apatosaurs are the most common species of sauropod, the unbelievably large long-necked dinosaurs.

Although they vary in size, most apatosaurs are between 70 and 80 feet in length. They are solitary, unlike their relatives Diplodocus and Seismosaurus. They feed on low-lying foliage with their long necks, and can rear up on their hind legs and tail to reach the tops of trees.

Combat
Apatosaurs are so large that they have few natural enemies, besides allosaurs and megalosaurs hunting in packs. If directly threatened, they lash out with their powerful tails, but are capable of merely walking over most opponents.

Thunderous Snap (Ex): Although they are ponderous, an apatosaurus’ whip-like tail can move faster than sound. Any creature struck by an apatosaurus’ tail slam must make a Fortitude save (DC 28) or be stunned for 1d4 rounds and deafened for 1d4 minutes. On a successful save, the creature is merely deafened for 1d4 minutes. The save DC is Constitution based.

Trample (Ex): An apatosaurus can literally run over any creatures in its way that are of Gargantuan or smaller size. Creatures trampled must make a Reflex save (DC 32 half) or take 6d8+18 damage. The save DC is Strength based.

 

[demiurge1138]

Just to point out that I'm not totally insane, the thunderous snap is a not-terribly-uncommon scientific hypothesis, as various computer dynamics analysis have suggested that an apatosaur or similar dinosaur could move its whip-like tail at supersonic speed.

Plus it's a cool ability for a game-dino to have.
Demiurge out.

 

[Zaster]

I think base size should be gargantuan. If you look at the colossal dragon on page 150 of the PH, he dwarfs the human figure in a way that I don't think even a 40 ton dinosaur could match. According to the Dragonomicon, a colossal dragon is around 640 tons.

Also, 20 HD seems slightly low-ball to me, what with this creature coming in at 3 or 4 times the weight of a 16 HD trike. Even the measly 6 ton Tyannosaurus has 18 HD. I realize HD isn't all about relative weight, but still...

As for ability scores and AC, I'd say offhand that Urge's look to be in the range of what's reasonable.

 

[demiurge1138]

I based the 20 HD figure off of the seismosaurus, the largest and strongest of the sauropods. According to the MMII, a seismosaurus has 32 HD, and both the diplodocus and brachiosaurus are larger/more powerful than an apatosaur. Also, tonnage wasn't my comparison so much as length. An apatosaur is certainly over 64 feet in length. But by weight, hmm...

Of course, if you were going by weight, the seismosaurus would be disqualified from the Colossal category (where it is), because the heaviest dinosaur was the 100 ton argentinosaurus (The MM posts Colossal at 125+ tons).

Demiurge out.

 

[Wippit Guud]

I second the vote for starting at gargantuan, keeps it more 'realistic' when comparing it to a dragon of similar strength (all but gold in the 34-35 strength cat are G). Hit dice seem about right compared to the closest thing we have to a similar creature in 3.5, triceratops (coming in at 16 to start).

But, beyond reducing the size by 1 (and remember, advancement will kick it up anyways), looks good.

 

[Mortis]

Hi Guys,

A 3e version of the Brontosaurus can be found here:

http://www.dnd.starflung.com/brontosa.html

other dinosaurs may be found on this page under 'd':

http://www.dnd.starflung.com/newcrea.html

and here:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011/

Regards,
Mortis

 

[BOZ]

thanks for the links; i'll have to check them out at home (stupid work filters).

some comments:

I could see going Gargantuan – most of the beast’s length is neck and tail. And the size charts do not need to be followed verbatim: the are not minimums and maximums, rather they are strong suggestions of such.

For hit dice, yes I say 20 is too low. The original had 30 right?

Thunderous snap – hey it’s unique, I’ll keep it.

 

[Wippit Guud]

For hit dice, yes I say 20 is too low. The original had 30 right?

Prblem is, there's several dinosaurs that are larger in size... unless you want 80HD seismosaurs in the future