Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

[freyar]

Here's a link to the working draft. The "post" command isn't as nice because it includes the rest of the thread, but the forum software at least translates the URL properly.

OK, let's deal with some of the question marks. CR: the great boobrie seems a bit worse than the achaierai despite a larger number of hp, so I'd probably peg them at CR 4. The black boobrie is probably CR 2. It's not far off from a hippogriff.

 

[Cleon]

Here's a link to the working draft. The "post" command isn't as nice because it includes the rest of the thread, but the forum software at least translates the URL properly.

OK, let's deal with some of the question marks. CR: the great boobrie seems a bit worse than the achaierai despite a larger number of hp, so I'd probably peg them at CR 4. The black boobrie is probably CR 2. It's not far off from a hippogriff.

An Achaierai is definitely better. Their full attack does a lot more damage (8d6+10 if all its natural weapons hit versus a Boobrie's 2d8+2d6+9). That's an average of 38 versus an average of 25, and the Achaierai's claw attack is only 1 less than a Great Boobrie's. It's also got higher AC, a nasty insanity-causing special attack, spell resistance, and roughly the same saves.

Challenge Rating 4 is OK by me.

The Black Boobrie eyeballs OK as CR 2, although it's damage seems a bit low. Maybe we should change its Full Attack option to "and"?

e.g.:

Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (2d4+2) and wing-buffet +0 melee (1d6+1); or
wing-buffet +5 melee (1d6+2) and bite +1 melee (2d4+1)

I think that'd work better for a CR 2 monster.

Shall I update the Boobrie Working Draft?

 

[freyar]

Yes, all those changes sound good to me.

Suggested environments seem fine.

Org seems like solitary, pair, or family (pair plus 1d6 young) for both types.

For advancement, I lean toward just a few HD without changing sizes, but I'm willing to consider something more expansive if you prefer.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, all those changes sound good to me.

Suggested environments seem fine.

Updating the Boobrie Working Draft.

Org seems like solitary, pair, or family (pair plus 1d6 young) for both types.

The "Black Boobrie" has:
"They lay 1d4 eggs, and throughout the late spring and early summer they are busy gathering food for their young"

and the "Great Boobrie" has
"If 2 are encountered they will be either a mated pair of adults (at least 5 points per hit die) or a pair of young (4 or fewer points per hit die)."

That suggests an Organization of "Solitary, pair, or nest (pair plus 1-4 eggs or young)"

For advancement, I lean toward just a few HD without changing sizes, but I'm willing to consider something more expansive if you prefer.

The Monster Manual II description of the Boobrie is of a "Gigantic" creature looking like a "huge heron" whose favorite food is "huge marsh catfish". That makes me want to allow the Great Boobrie to advance in size. The only official 3E Giant Catfish I can see in Echohawk's index is in Dungeon #82. Comparing those stats to our Great Boobrie it ought to be able to take out a standard Giant Catfish, although it might be a tough fight. An "Advanced Boobrie" would find it a lot easier:

Giant Catfish: CR 4; Large Animal (11 ft. long); HD 7d8+14; hp 45 each; Init +2 (Dex); Spd swim 60 ft.; AC 15 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural); Atk +7 melee (1d8+4, bite); SA improved grab, swallow whole, Face 5 ft. × 10 ft.; AL N; SV Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +3; Str 17, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2.​

The Black Boobrie seems to stick to Man-size, so I'm fine not having it advance.

How about.

"Great" Boobrie: 10-12 HD (Large); 13-18 HD (Huge)
Black Boobrie: 5-6 HD (Medium)

 

[freyar]

If they lay 1d4 eggs per year, and the young stick around a bit more than a year, it's reasonable to have (at least) 1d6 young hanging around. So I'd like to bump the number of young to 1-6. (Note that large birds like ostriches and emus do stay with their parents about a year, and raptors don't mature for several years even if some leave the nest a bit earlier.)

Your proposed advancement is fine.

 

[Cleon]

If they lay 1d4 eggs per year, and the young stick around a bit more than a year, it's reasonable to have (at least) 1d6 young hanging around. So I'd like to bump the number of young to 1-6. (Note that large birds like ostriches and emus do stay with their parents about a year, and raptors don't mature for several years even if some leave the nest a bit earlier.)

Your proposed advancement is fine.

That's odd, I made a reply to this post before updating the Boobrie Working Draft but it seems to have vanished.

Anyhow, I'll try to remember what I said before and repost it.

Firstly, while large raptors can take several years to mature they spend most of that looking after themselves. A golden eagle, for example, only gets fed by its parents for a few month after its fledged and is then forced to fly off and fend for itself. The parents are raising a new clutch each year.

There are a few predatory real-life bird that hunt in families, i.e. some hornbills, but the AD&D Boobrie specifies that they have a #Encounter of 1-2 and are only encountered alone or in pairs, which definitely means they don't do the same.

Further, it's only the "Black Boobrie" that specifies the number of eggs/young as 1-4, the "Greater Boobrie" says that two young Boobries can occasionally be encountered (25%) by themselves, so it's possible they only hatch 1-2 young - although personally I think that these are more likely to be immature birds that have formed a pair-bond but have yet to breed successfully.

In either case, I'm strongly in favour of having a "nest" with 1-4 noncombatant eggs or young and see no evidence in any of the AD&D entries that support an Org entry that has 1-6 combatworthy young Boobries, e.g.:

Organization: Solitary, pair, or nest (2 plus 1-4 eggs or non-combative young)

 

[freyar]

Ehh, sure, no problem. Same for both boobries, then?

I think there's an extra ? in the black boobrie's skills entry (in the combat section).

Tactics: (the text can probably use some work)

Great boobries attack viciously from ambush, tearing their opponents with beak and claw. A boobrie will often attempt to grab smaller prey with its beak and drag it into the marsh to finish it off. Boobries can also puff up their feathers as a way of frightening their opponents, sometimes escaping from superior combatants in this way.

Black boobries buffet and trip their prey before biting. ...

 

[Cleon]

Ehh, sure, no problem. Same for both boobries, then?

Why do I get the suspicion I could have got my way without having to write seven paragraphs of text?

Updating the Boobrie Working Draft.

I think there's an extra ? in the black boobrie's skills entry (in the combat section).

Fixed!

I'd left that in there while we where to-ing and fro-ing about the skills but we don't need it anymore.

Tactics: (the text can probably use some work)

Great boobries attack viciously from ambush, tearing their opponents with beak and claw. A boobrie will often attempt to grab smaller prey with its beak and drag it into the marsh to finish it off. Boobries can also puff up their feathers as a way of frightening their opponents, sometimes escaping from superior combatants in this way.

How's this:

Great boobries try to attack from ambush, tearing into prey with beak and claw. A boobrie will sometimes grab a smaller opponent with its beak and drag them into the marsh to deal with.

Like most sensible predators, a great boobrie may flee from a losing fight. A threatened boobrie sometimes escapes from a superior enemy by puffing out its head-feathers and intimidating them.

 

[freyar]

Hey, that looks good to me.

I think the black boobrie would have somewhat different tactics. First off, it's not as much of an ambusher, and it trips rather than grabs prey. It's also intimidating, but not as much. So maybe it tries to use Intimidate to set up easy attacks?

 

[Cleon]

Hey, that looks good to me.

Updating the Boobrie Working Draft.

I think the black boobrie would have somewhat different tactics. First off, it's not as much of an ambusher, and it trips rather than grabs prey. It's also intimidating, but not as much. So maybe it tries to use Intimidate to set up easy attacks?

Wouldn't it be more likely to try to knock its opponent prone with a wing buffet and then skewer them with its beak?