Conveying Setting Information

[Reynard]

That's hard, because I have trouble imagining a group that has never seen any Star Wars. And because I don't know the specific rules.

Let me explain why that makes a difference- for example, if the rules for character creation include "Jedi," then I would include a quick definition of what a Jedi is.

I would probably just have a brief overview of the time period- there is a war between two sides called the Galactic Republic and the Confederacy of Independent Systems (the separatists). It's called the Clone Wars because the troops of the GR are clones. Meanwhile, the separatists primarily use droids.

Real basic. If we are playing in a specific area, I would include brief information about that.

I wasn't trying to "gotcha" I was just curious how folks might try and distill such a volume of (dumb, if we're being honest) lore.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I wasn't trying to "gotcha" I was just curious how folks might try and distill such a volume of (dumb, if we're being honest) lore.

Oh, I know! I wasn't saying that. It's just really hard for me to imagine it. But I would have the absolute bare minimum of lore. People can pick it up in play.

I think that for most (not all, but most) players, lore is not nearly as important as it is for the GM.

 

[overgeeked]

This bothers Mr just a little because we all constantly make decisions to door not do things based on internalized "setting information" in our lives. It's unreasonable, then, to expect players to immerse themselves and making in character decisions when they don't have that information.

Of course,this is much more important when we are talking about agency and player directed action.

They don't need to know the names of the monarchs of all the neighboring kingdoms to open a door that's in front of them. If the names of any of the monarchs comes up, then it'll be relevant, and then it will be conveyed. Prior to that, it's a waste of time.

It has zero effect on agency. I run player-focused games and it's only ever been a problem for those rare problem players who think player agency means having perfect and absolute knowledge of everything ahead of time in order to make any decisions at all. That kind of bad faith isn't worth engaging.

 

[Reynard]

It has zero effect on agency. I run player-focused games and it's only ever been a problem for those rare problem players who think player agency means having perfect and absolute knowledge of everything ahead of time in order to make any decisions at all. That kind of bad faith isn't worth enengaging.

What I mean is like say you are playing a treasure hunter/tomb raider/uncharted game in the fantastical modern world, and you put a high premium on player agency in choosing the actual "adventure." We all know about Aztecs and Egyptians and other ancient civilizations, so players can decide they want to raid tombs of the ancient Kmer civilization, or whatever.

In a similar setup in a unfamiliar world, the players don't have that kind of agency because they don't have all that information as part of their internalized knowledge. That's all I was saying.

 

[overgeeked]

What I mean is like say you are playing a treasure hunter/tomb raider/uncharted game in the fantastical modern world, and you put a high premium on player agency in choosing the actual "adventure." We all know about Aztecs and Egyptians and other ancient civilizations, so players can decide they want to raid tombs of the ancient Kmer civilization, or whatever.

In a similar setup in a unfamiliar world, the players don't have that kind of agency because they don't have all that information as part of their internalized knowledge. That's all I was saying.

That's exactly what I'm pushing back against. I disagree with that completely. I run player-focused games and it's never been a problem.

"Hey, what would I know about this ancient civilization?"

"Okay, so it's like..."

It's literally that easy. Writing a thousand words of history on a civilization that might not ever be interacted with during the game is a waste of time. Handing that to players and asking them to read it is a waste of their time. It only matters when it matters in the actual game. That's when you tell them.

Not having that information before it's relevant to decision making doesn't matter. When that information would inform a decision is when it's handed over.

When the PCs are actually presented with a choice of civilizations to interact with is exactly the right time to impart the relevant info. When it comes up in the game, in the moment of making those decisions, is when the relevant info is given. This civ is like the Aztecs, this one is like the Maya, that one is like Sumer, the other is India during early colonialism, that other one is Spain during the reconquista, etc.

Info dumps suck in fiction. And the suck worse in RPGs. You never have to info dump. It's a choice. And always a bad one.

The thing most referees don't get is that the players don't care about the world as much as the worldbuildng referee does. The players only care if it actually matters in the moment. So that's when you tell them.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I love world building as a thing I do for my own enjoyment.

But I learned a long, long time ago that very few players are ever going to be as into it as I am. And truth is, when I'm a player I'm not as into the GM's world building as the GM is. I think it's the nature of the beast.

If I do have some setting info to convey, I try to keep it simple. Maybe 2 pages, of which the players really only need to read the 1st paragraph. The rest of the 2 pages will be background stuff that will help inform players of their choices but is non-essential. Well, hopefully it will be informative and I haven't disappeared down my own rabbit hole.

 

[DragonLancer]

When I'm a player, I'm in the minority. You could give me a 50 page document about your world and I'd read it, print it out and bring it with me to the game. I'd rather be immersed in the setting but as others have said most players aren't.

I think keeping it to a paragraph or two isn't enough though, depending on the setting. That might work for something reasonably generic like FR or GH, but if you were running post War of Souls Dragonlance or even something different like Eberron, I think players need to know a little more than that to understand the setting they are getting into.

The setting is as much of the game as the mechanics, so I'd expect players to take/want to take some interest in the setting they are playing.

 

[Aldarc]

Start small with the basics. Reveal the setting as you go through play.

or even something different like Eberron, I think players need to know a little more than that to understand the setting they are getting into.

Eberron campaign books usually begin with a list of 7-10 things about the setting in a two page primer.

Eberron 3e (1.25 pages):
1. If it exists in D&D, then it has a place in Eberron.
2. Tone and attitude.
3. A world of magic.
4. A world of adventure.
5. The Last War has ended-sort of.
6. The Five Nations.
7. A world of intrigue.
8. Dragonmark dynasties.
9. Dragonshards.
10. New races.

Eberron 4e (2 pages):
1. If it exists in D&D, then it has a place in Eberron.
2. Tone and attitude.
3. A world of magic.
4. A world of adventure.
5. The Last War has ended-sort of.
6. The Draconic Prophecy.
7. The Five Nations.
8. A world of intrigue.
9. Dragonmark dynasties.
10. Dragonshards.

Eberron 5e (>1 page):
1. The Last War Has Ended-Sort Of.
2. Dragonmarked Dynasties.
3. Lands of Intrigue.
4. A Continent of Adventure.
5. A World of Magic.
6. New Races.
7. D&D with a Twist.

 

[aco175]

In TV shows they just have a flashback. Suddenly you have a bit of lore introduced when you roll a knowledge check and you tell them about the time you once studied for your wizard finals and went on expedition to the blah, blah and seen these strange runes before. You know they are part of the old language of Mordor. Blah, Blah about Mordor depending on how high you roll.

I once gave each player a campaign primer and changed things in each PCs primer so they would know slightly different things since some maps showed a shortcut or villages that might not be on others and ruins and such. The primer was only a page or two if I recall but had a NPC contact or bit of knowledge on something may come up. It was rewarding once they realized that it was something they could use, and then suddenly everyone read it.

I think the group went into a tavern when they finally got to the larger town after 4-5 sessions. Suddenly the bartender comes over and hugs one of the PCs and welcomes them. All the players are WTF when the player being hugged pulls out his primer and says, we know this guy. Everyone else is now pulling out their primer and saying they do not know this guy and start to swap info.

 

[payn]

When I'm a player, I'm in the minority. You could give me a 50 page document about your world and I'd read it, print it out and bring it with me to the game. I'd rather be immersed in the setting but as others have said most players aren't.

I think keeping it to a paragraph or two isn't enough though, depending on the setting. That might work for something reasonably generic like FR or GH, but if you were running post War of Souls Dragonlance or even something different like Eberron, I think players need to know a little more than that to understand the setting they are getting into.

The setting is as much of the game as the mechanics, so I'd expect players to take/want to take some interest in the setting they are playing.

A unicorn!