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D&D 5E Convince me to Spend the Money

fjw70

Adventurer
I actually like character building and monster building of the 3e engine (fiddly bits if you will) but the lack thereof does not mean a bad game.

Most PF players do so that is why I mentioned it.

5e does have an okay monster building system, not as good as 4e but decent. I really don't use it since it has too many steps for my tastes. I have the MM and the Frog God Games monster book so I am not hurting for monsters to use, reskin, or modify.

I don't use the 5e encounter building system much either. I just take the CR as a rough guideline to power and go from there. I enjoy playing a lot for than building so that is where my energy goes.

I did use the 4e monster and encounter building system since they were ver easy to do (especially on the fly which is how I do most of my planning).
 

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plancktum

First Post
But when you say way more complete, what is there in the two 5e books that is not in the Pathfinder Core, or are you simply saying you do not expect as many add on systems over the long-haul?
The second point, I do not expect as much books as in PF. But it's more the psychological point, as I'm a completionist, too.

Do you find this as true of both the Player's Handbook as the DMG? Which would you recommend above the other for game ideas?
For Ideas definitely the DMG or the MM. I think the DMG is absolutely gorgeous and contains many ideas, but in my opinion the MM is even better for idea mining.
For the PHB: This book is not that good for ideas as the DMG/MM. As a GM I do not look that often into the PHB, but my players do if they want to find new character concepts.

best regards
 

Wicht

Hero
So you want convinced to spend money you don't want to spend?

:erm:

I don't think thats quite what I said.

Its a bit of money, I don't have a lot of money and there are other things I might want to spend the same money on - not just RPGwise, but board games, etc.

Why should my discretionary spending go in one direction instead of some other is the heart of the question. I am predisposed by history, inclination and attitude to buy Dungeons and Dragons books (4e is the first edition I never bought a single book of; prior to that if it had Dungeons and Dragons on it, I wanted to buy it and often did), but its just one fish in a larger pond and I wanted to hear some thoughts on the desirability of the books at the price point they are at.
 

Wicht

Hero
For Ideas definitely the DMG or the MM. I think the DMG is absolutely gorgeous and contains many ideas, but in my opinion the MM is even better for idea mining.
For the PHB: This book is not that good for ideas as the DMG/MM. As a GM I do not look that often into the PHB, but my players do if they want to find new character concepts.

best regards

From a practical standpoint - if I initially skipped the PH and went with the DMG for reading, would it be understandable, or do you really need to read the PH first?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
From a practical standpoint - if I initially skipped the PH and went with the DMG for reading, would it be understandable, or do you really need to read the PH first?

Given the existence of the free Basic (I know you don't like reading pdfs, but it is relevant) you can probably pick up the DMG and understand the lion's share of it. If you're not going to read any of the base mechanics, you won't understand the full relevance of much of what the DMG has. You'll understand it in a broad sense, but not what it really means in context.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
You're not a very good salesman. :p

I don't want to read a PDF.

I want convinced to spend the money on books that I will enjoy.

Meaning, I want people to tell me why I will enjoy these books. :D

I think what some people are telling you is that, to find out if you will enjoy these books, it makes some sense to play the game "for free" and see what you like about it and what you don't like about it. Then, rather than listening to random jerks on the internet like me, you can use your own brain and experience to find out if the book is a worthwhile purchase for you.

And I think you already suspect that you will enjoy these books - you're curious, you've picked them up, you are engaged - you maybe just don't know if you will fifty dollars enjoy these books. If that PHB you held was $20, you'd have bought it already, yeah?

So lets put it this way: what would you spend that money on otherwise? If you're choosing between the PHB and necessary medical expenses or rent or gas money, no, don't buy it. If you're choosing between the PHB and other RPG products, I'd say spend money on what you know you're going to see actually in play - it's worth buying over Supplement X that will never see play at your table, but it's not worth buying over Core Rulebook Z that you've been meaning to get to keep up with the rest of the group for a while now. If you're choosing between the PHB and, I dunno, a nice steak dinner with your Significant Other? Well, the PHB might win in some circumstances (like: your SO would play D&D5e with you!) and might not be in others (like: you've been in the doghouse for not spending enough time with your SO and your anniversary is coming up and...).

For me it was worth it because I was annoyed with 3e and had a bit of love/hate with 4e and didn't want to return to the days of THAC0 and enjoyed the "big, simple decisions" design principles and had a group I could talk into playing. And also my wife was cool with it (she's a vegetarian anyway!). I imagine for you, if it is worth it, it'll be worth it for your own idiosyncratic reasons, too.
 

Flexor the Mighty!

18/100 Strength!
Yeah really I'd get the free PDF and run some combats with a few different groups of characters and see how you like that. Maybe a quick adventure. Its nice to get to try before spending 150 bucks on books, though they are cheaper on Amazon I'm sure.
 


Tormyr

Hero
What does 5e offer?
* A system that a DM can run "shooting from the hip." The system is very simple so time can be dedicated to story development. Encounters can be put together on the fly; Difficulty Class doesn't change based on the PC's level and can be easily selected;
* Combat is quick: for a 4 person party most combat will last around 3 rounds
* Advantage/Disadvantage: rolling 2 dice and taking the higher or lower number instead of all those +2/-2s
* DM Fiat: the books do not spell out every little thing and refer back to the DM making the final decision
* Proficiency: The bonus for being skilled in something starts at +2 at level 1 and goes to +6 at level 20. That one bonus applies to any training/skill whether it is attack bonus for a weapon or being stealthy.
* Bounded Accuracy: It is mathematically possible for most creatures to accomplish a task, but creatures that specialize have a much better chance. A commoner with +0 Str mod can hit a warrior with full plate and shield (AC20), but it needs a 19 and up while a level 20 fighter needs a 9. A level 1 strength fighter with a criminal background and proficiency with thieves tools needs a 19 to open a DC 20 lock. A level 1 rogue with +3 Dex mod and expertise (double proficiency) in thieve's tools needs a 13 for that same lock. That rogue at level 20 would need a 3 to open the lock, and it could open a DC 30, the highest DC in the game, lock with a 13. So there is still a chance of success and failure at all levels in the game with the same enemies and the same DCs.
* Simplified Action Economy: A PC gets an action, possibly a bonus action, movement, and one interaction with the environment per turn.
* Legendary Resistance: Limited ability that helps some "strong" monsters avoid getting cheesed.
* Focus on story: The PHB reminds players to think of the motivations for why there character is getting involved in the adventure in the introduction to each character and race as well as through the use of the backgrounds.
* Easy to convert earlier edition adventures: Because it is easy to run ad hoc, there is not a whole lot that needs to be done when running an adventure from an earlier edition such as 3.5. Although you definitely can, like I do.
* Free starter set: While you want the books, your players may not want to shell out $50 for a PHB. This allows them to participate without needing to spend money.
* Encounter building: Because low level creatures are still viable opponents, you can throw a bunch in and have it be a valid encounter for a higher level party. Either the party burns resources or they could be overrun.

To answer some of the stuff you brought up in other posts:
* Full attack, power attack, and a lot of that stuff is gone for the most part. Some monsters and PCs get multiple attacks if they take the attack action, but that is just their action. There is no extra bookkeeping or powers with it.
* Reasons to buy the books: The books are *(@&#%(*&( gorgeous. Almost all of the artwork is evocative and beautiful. Rather than cram the information in, each section/monster/whatever starts on its own page. The white space is taken up by artwork. Monsters have descriptions of homes, society, and behavior. As rules light as they are, there is not too much sit back and read material. The PHB enjoyable reading bits are the introductions for the races, classes and backgrounds. The MM has great artwork and descriptions each monster. The DMG has interesting set ups for story elements, world building, and the magic items are cool. Any of these sections will spark a DMs imagination with ideas they can put in their game right now. However, there may not be enough good reading bits to justify $50 a book for just reading ($30 is an easier sell).
* From what I have heard the adventure in the starter set is the best adventure out so far that was made for 5e. It gives a cheap and easy jump in to the system for all involved.
* The starter set is an excellent gift. I gave 2 to my brothers at Christmas. My youngest brother took it back to university and had a blast running a game without ever having played any table RPG before.
* Kobolds get advantage when fighting with an ally. So they have a better chance of damaging high level characters even though they won't do too much damage each.
* Your money is tight, so start with the starter set and grow into the rest of the system. PHB, MM, DMG is probably the right order for acquisition for a DM, and the free pdfs can fill in the gaps in the meantime.

Now buy! BUY! (but gradually) And increase the D&D 5e user base! ;)

EDIT: Edited to focus more on reason to buy the book rather than invest in the system. Didn't quite realize that was what [MENTION=221]Wicht[/MENTION] was getting at. Wisdom (Insight) check was low.
 
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