Costs for leveling up in AD&D1

[Crothian]

This is especially true when running a story-intensive campaign, where neither time nor opportunity for such training exist; when running a survival-oriented campaign; or in many other circumstances.

styopry oriented?? Survival oriented?? this is 1e, it wasn't set up for those games

 

[gizmo33]

Never used them as written. The costs IMO were ridiculous - unaffordable at low levels and unjustifiable at higher levels. I've settled into a "down-time required for leveling" houserule, similar to the vague guidelines in 2e. Anything else IMO forces a "master-apprentice" relationship on characters where in some instances it's not justified. I don't remember Conan training.

 

[diaglo]

I don't remember Conan training.

then you missed the novels or the movies.

 

[gizmo33]

then you missed the novels or the movies.

First of all, I mean Conan, so that doesn't include the movies with a similarly named character which otherwise don't resemble the books. (Though I liked the first movie) Not that the first movie seems in anyway and example of the kind of periodic training we're discussing.

Secondly, I'm not much familiar with Conan stories outside of REH (though I've read Jordan's).

Thirdly, Conan goes where he wants to do and does so on his own schedule. While he may have trained "off-screen" to hang with the Kozaki, for instance, he's not forcing himself to take a break in the middle of an adventure to go level up. And I'm not sure who it is who can teach Conan anything about fighting in general. His "training" episodes as I recall involve him learning the specifics of certain weapons (bow, horse), or integrating himself with a fighting unit. I don't think it ever suggests that he gets any better at killing those giant apes that he's always fighting. Specific skills is one thing but entire levels of ability (eg. hitpoints, saves) is something I think that's a DnD-ism and not in the Conan novels. Much of Conan's skill (eg. thief skills) is probably "on the job" training. The core of leveling up is hitpoints/saves and no reference, as I recall, is EVER made to some formalized training having any influence in this area (feel free to post counter-examples).

Simple question - between adventures (those headings in the Ace books reprints of REH) - what does Conan spend his money on:
A. Women
B. Drinking
C. High-Priced trainers who are supposedly better at fighting than Conan.
D. A and B

I use the Conan novels as an example because they were supposedly, according to Gygax, a formative influence on the 1E game. The movies were not (Gygax disliked them, in fact, according to his Dragon Mag review).

Lastly - what do you think the chances are that someone posting on a DnD message board and referencing Conan hasn't read the books? Sheesh. Whether my analysis is right or wrong, I've read them. Feel free to post some details to your counter argument if you wish.

 

[diaglo]

His "training" episodes as I recall involve him learning the specifics of certain weapons (bow, horse), or integrating himself with a fighting unit.

yup. that's training.


so is he early morning ritual of clearing his mind and exercising his body.

and when he fights an opponent that teaches him something new. he learns. but to use it... he has to practice.

practice makes perfect... and is training.

in Conan's example he mostly trains himself... which by the time you are reading the books places him beyond the lvl of superhero.

Lastly - what do you think the chances are that someone posting on a DnD message board and referencing Conan hasn't read the books? Sheesh. Whether my analysis is right or wrong, I've read them. Feel free to post some details to your counter argument if you wish.

nope. just think you are skimming over stuff too quickly.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Problem with this poll is that it's phrased in the past tense... to my certain knowledge, several of the people participating in this thread still play 1e.

If we gave out btb amounts of cash then we would, but we don't so we don't.

 

[Quasqueton]

Problem with this poll is that it's phrased in the past tense... to my certain knowledge, several of the people participating in this thread still play 1e.

That's not a problem with the *poll*.

Quasqueton

 

[gizmo33]

so is he early morning ritual of clearing his mind and exercising his body.

Early morning ritual? Whaaa? Maybe you're talking about Conan O'Brian.

and when he fights an opponent that teaches him something new. he learns. but to use it... he has to practice.

Oh yea, like when the Frost Giants...er...um. Or when the ape on the island of statues...er.those pirates... uh. I can think of a grand total of ZERO times any of Conan's adversaries ever survived long enough to teach him anything about fighting - or that such knowledge was referenced in the descriptions of any of the fights. Of course I don't recall every detail of every story - I look forward to someone who's read the books to contradict me on this.

practice makes perfect... and is training.

Hmmm. Practice = training. Your psionic attack has stunned me.

in Conan's example he mostly trains himself... which by the time you are reading the books places him beyond the lvl of superhero.

So if he's not training in the novels, then your knowledge of his career prior to the books must be based on your conversations with him in email? There were some Conan short stories regarding his adventures in his "youth" (ex. where he was called a "thief"). I recall nothing explicit about periods of training during this time, or morning jogs or whatever. I remember one point where a fellow thief ("Taurus", I believe, was the name I skimmed over) had some advice for him regarding the hiding of guard's bodies. Not something he went out and "practiced" later.

But I suppose I should stop dignifying your generalities with specifics from books you say I never read. I wouldn't be surprised if you posted something about the time Conan was taught to fly a fighter plane by some old ace. If I were a slaad that's what I'd do.

nope. just think you are skimming over stuff too quickly.

The only thing I've done too quickly is write "training" when I should have said "something like the training that is required to advance in level in 1e" (though I thought it was obvious from the context). Now I'm having to argue about early morning meditation as a result of my carelessness in posting. My "skimming" that you're refering to is actually the source of the only counter-argument of any relevance that you have on this subject.

My best guess is that you've inadvertently put on a Ring of Contrariness. Rather than continue to post the only facts on either side of this issue, I'll just continue the dialog with myself and I'll let you know if I manage to change my mind.

 

[gizmo33]

If we gave out btb amounts of cash then we would, but we don't so we don't.

IME most folks that still play 1E have so thoroughly mastered the system that I take my net-persona's life in it's hands by even posting a clarification/question on this topic. So please take this only as idle ramblings if it offends:

I'm not sure that "by the book" treasure awards in 1E are high. In fact, having rolled some on the actual treasure tables for a few years (with help of a computer program) I have to say that IMO most of the treasure awards in the modules significantly exceed those recommended "btb". In fact, taking into account the "% In Lair" mechanic in the MM, a good percentage of the time (barring situational factors) you don't even get to roll on the treasure table. Regarding NPCs, the guidelines IIRC are pretty sketchy - I remember some tables for generating magic items (I used the one in the Fiend Folio, though there might be others). But no guidelines for cash.

In fact, since I was using a computer program for the latter part of my 1E DMing, I found the levels of cash inconsistent with the cash requirements for training, which is the reason that I dropped them as written.

 

[Space Coyote]

I think that the poll needs another entry that reads: "There were training costs in AD&D1?"