log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E Could Theros and Tasha's Cauldron the way they're going to handle real-world pantheons?

Real-world pantheons in D&D have generally been a mess and usually something regulated to an appendix if at all. Never been accurate historically, and often based on certain dubious interpretations, like the D&D Norse pantheon being strongly based on Snorri Sturluson's interpretation of Norse mythology. They've often often included the Greek or Norse pantheons as a reference for those making their own mythologies. But beyond Planescape and Spelljammer (Ptah) back in 2e, certain FR Gods who come from Norse, Greek, Finnish or Celtic mythologies or certain Gods like Tiamat who have nothing to do with their mythological counterparts (D&D Tiamat seems to have no rivalry with the Babylonian God Marduk), they haven't strongly factored much into the official canon of D&D.

Mystic Odyssey of Theros is at first a D&D campaign based on a Magic the Gathering world, but it strongly features a pantheon of Gods that are the original IP of WotC, that's certainly inspired by the Greek/Olympian pantheon. Something makes me suspect, that they might be eventually replacing mentions of Poseidon with Thassa or Apollo with Heliod.

Then we come to Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, where I noticed when referring to Domain and the deities that might be associated with them, they've completely went with those from Campaign-specific pantheons like FR, Greyhawk and Eberron. I suspect going forward they want the mythology to be tied closer to their own IP.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Mystic Odyssey of Theros is at first a D&D campaign based on a Magic the Gathering world, but it strongly features a pantheon of Gods that are the original IP of WotC, that's certainly inspired by the Greek/Olympian pantheon. Something makes me suspect, that they might be eventually replacing mentions of Poseidon with Thassa or Apollo with Heliod.
Cultural scavengers.
 

Scribe

Hero
I'd be super annoyed, and then ignore it, and make my own.

I (used to) like Magic, so it's not just hating for the sake of it, but no. I'll keep the history of the various D&D pantheons, or just make up another before I use the MtG stuff.

I really don't like seeing those races in the game either like Loxodons or Simic stuff...
 

I'd be super annoyed, and then ignore it, and make my own.

I (used to) like Magic, so it's not just hating for the sake of it, but no. I'll keep the history of the various D&D pantheons, or just make up another before I use the MtG stuff.

I really don't like seeing those races in the game either like Loxodons or Simic stuff...
It isn't about them not using the D&D pantheons, it's about them not wanting to use the Greek Pantheon anymore. At least it seems like it's going that way.
 


They should just dump mention of the real life pantheons. At best it is unnecessary, at worst, it creates impressions that some might consider problematic. You could easily drop those mentions and the game would not suffer for it. If a DM is gung-ho to do an accurate Norse campaign, they are probably far better suited to do it on their own than leaning into the sparse information offerings in 5e.
 

jgsugden

Legend
To a large extent, even when the Gods we use are based upon the source materials, we make them our own.

Look at Critical Role. If you have Kord, Melora, Pelor, The Raven Queen, Ioun or Vecna in your game - do they match what Mercer has done with them? No.

To that end, as long as we are respectful of the cultures from which the figures are drawn (when they are drawn from cultures), it doesn't really matter how or what we get because we're going to personalize them.
 



dave2008

Legend
(D&D Tiamat seems to have no rivalry with the Babylonian God Marduk),
What! Of course he does! In case you can't read it in the snip below, the last line reads:

"His battles with Tiamat are legendary."

1613005661525.png
 

What! Of course he does! In case you can't read it in the snip below, the last line reads:

"His battles with Tiamat are legendary."

View attachment 132547
Tiamat's rivalry with Bahamut completely overshadows her rivalry with Marduk. I don't think they've even acknowledged Marduk as existing since 2e.

Also on a related note, why are the Babylonian and Sumerian pantheons 2 different pantheons in D&D, but not the Roman and Greek?
 



cbwjm

Hero
Tiamat's rivalry with Bahamut completely overshadows her rivalry with Marduk. I don't think they've even acknowledged Marduk as existing since 2e.

Also on a related note, why are the Babylonian and Sumerian pantheons 2 different pantheons in D&D, but not the Roman and Greek?
Probably because there isn't such strong syncretism between the babylonian and sumerian gods. Were Anu and Marduk considered the same in as much the same way as Zeus and Jupiter?

FR kept Tiamat's ties with the babylonian gods, I believe she came through with them, but you're right that her rivalry with Marduk dwindled in favour of the Bahamut/Tiamat rivalry. She has pretty much morphed into her own thing at this point, starting from at least 2e.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
and often based on certain dubious interpretations, like the D&D Norse pantheon being strongly based on Snorri Sturluson's interpretation of Norse mythology.

One thing I would say about "dubious interpretations"... is that a lot of these old pantheons were very... fluid.

I ran a game where I needed an Egyptian pantheon, and I wanted it to be accurate... only to find out that there are several versions and permutation. I ended up settling on one that worked for the game... and honestly, that's more important than an exact "historical" one that only represent a moment in time.
 

Also on a related note, why are the Babylonian and Sumerian pantheons 2 different pantheons in D&D, but not the Roman and Greek?

Because American public education teaches that the Greek and Roman pantheons are the same gods with different names. Meanwhile it barely touches on the Babylonian and Sumerian pantheons at all. Yes maybe kids get the later in one section of one chapter of their 7th grade Social Studies textbook, but Greek and Roman gods not only get more time in the Social Studies class but then come up repeatedly in literature classes, and it is invariably taught that they are the same gods.
 


Ace

Adventurer
Because American public education teaches that the Greek and Roman pantheons are the same gods with different names. Meanwhile it barely touches on the Babylonian and Sumerian pantheons at all. Yes maybe kids get the later in one section of one chapter of their 7th grade Social Studies textbook, but Greek and Roman gods not only get more time in the Social Studies class but then come up repeatedly in literature classes, and it is invariably taught that they are the same gods.
America education often doesn't cover mythology or ancient religions at all in large parts if the country . Back in the day that the DDG was first published it was assumed that any likely D&D player had read Edith Hamilton's Mythology which covered Greece/Rome and the Norse myths. It was sort of an unofficial appendix N book.

They are very familiar to most Americans heck still are you see those two in DC and Marvel movie forms but almost none of the others outside of maybe American Gods which is niche.

Now in my second game world I just went with bitheism instead of polytheism. Its based very loosely with Christianity and Wicca so just as lazy world building as ripping off Greek and Norse but less to keep track off and no need for temples, event calendars and all that to have a detailed feeling in game religion. When I need something else just throw in a cult with some small Gods or Denomlators or the like and viola.
 

see

Pedantic Grognard
Tiamat's rivalry with Bahamut completely overshadows her rivalry with Marduk. I don't think they've even acknowledged Marduk as existing since 2e.
FR kept Tiamat's ties with the babylonian gods, I believe she came through with them, but you're right that her rivalry with Marduk dwindled in favour of the Bahamut/Tiamat rivalry
The official take in the Forgotten Realms (as of 2006's Dragons of Faerun) is that "Tiamat battled an Untheric alias of Bahamut, known as Marduk the Justice Bringer, time and again, but neither wyrm could prevail", that eventually Bahamut-Marduk "killed" Tiamat "at the cost of his own life" in an event that didn't actually kill either but did demote them both from godhood, and then they both became gods again something like 2,400 years later.
 

cbwjm

Hero
Actually, isn't bahamut also taken from babylonian mythology? Maybe not in the form of a dragon nut could have sworn they had some god named Bamut that he was based on.

After a quick google search, maybe not. There is a giant fish in Arabian mythology named bahamut taken from behemoth, but I can't find anything about Babylonian mythology.
 

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top