Could this be the future format of 4th Edition D&D?

[S'mon]

I do think the core rules should be a lot simpler. I've been driven away from GMing 3e to C&C and old B/X D&D by the rules load. Something like the old Moldvay Basic, maybe for levels 1-10 as the basic game, then add-ons to taste, would be best I think.

 

[Ry]

I'm so into it.

 

[Psion]

If I want to play Heroscape, I'll pull it down off my shelf and play it.

For my fantasy roleplaying needs, I'll take D&D in it's current form, or close derivatives. I could see a few things that could be tidied up, but I wouldn't want to see any major shifts.

 

[Dykstrav]

Like the Fantastic Locations series?

More like the new Basic Games I reckon. I dig the Fantastic Locations maps (I get lots of use out of the King's Road map in particular), but they aren't really full adventures. The products even directly state that in the introductions.

And those still don't come with the minis that you need to play them as written.

 

[Razz]

I don't want a 4E at all. That's where I'll quit the game and keep going with 3.5E, probably converting 4E material to 3E material. Of course, I won't be purchasing 4E material, I have my ways.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Thanks for the feedback.

Getting quite a response, not sure I'll be able to keep up with the posts and reply to everyone but we'll see.

Hey crazy_cat!

Blimey!

Sounds very interesting, but doesn't sound anything like the D&D I know and love, or in fact any sort of game I'd like to play quite honestly.

If that was 4e then I'm fairly sure I'd be sticking with 3.5.

This is a response I am hearing from a lot of people.

But I don't see why people take umbrage at a simpler rules (which do the same job) and adding visual elements as standard (given so many already incorporate them).

Aiming something at kids to get them into RPGs is a good idea, but rather than Dungeons & Dora or Dungeons & Barbie or whatever I think WOTC would be better off with the My Little Pony RPG found here

I'm trying to aim it at a wider audience - not necessarily just kids. Although I do think the board/minis/cards visual aspect would attract more kids certainly.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Rich!

I've heard someone else talk about basically this same idea somewhere recently, but I can't remember where.

It might have been me in a few other threads.

The main difference I remember was the idea of also having a core book or rules cyclopedia/compendium series to go alongside it for people who just wanted the rules, but didn't want the boxed sets.

As I see it the boxed set already does everything the hardback can do. It just has more visual flair.

I like it, myself. I think it's got potential. (And personally, I'd be all over the boxed sets. I like the tactile and visual aspects of games.)

Exactly, I certainly think that would be part of the allure.

 

[crazy_cat]

*snip*
I'm trying to aim it at a wider audience - not necessarily just kids. Although I do think the board/minis/cards visual aspect would attract more kids certainly.

I think that trying to grow D&D as a game by dumbing down the rules and adding more visual and physical props to what is at heart (and always has been) a quite complex game of imagination is to mis-market the game.

If people want to play a simpler board or card based game then they can.

To re-invent and re-brand D&D as this game for everybody is I suspect a fairly surefire way to alienate most of the existing players (and hence the market) for no actual assurance that anybody else will actually like the new hybrid game you've invented.

Big gamble for WOTC - if it works they make lots of cash, but its a big if - losing the existing players and sales and not replacing them, let alone expanding upon them, basically kills D&D.

I call that outcome a bad thing, and I suspect most at WOTC would to.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey delericho mate!

I agree wholeheartedly with your reasons for the change. In particular, I think that D&D currently has far too high an investment level required of new players (or new playing groups, at least) both in terms of cost, and also in terms of having to read 1,000 pages of rules.

I also like several of the elements you discussed: I can clearly see the benefits of miniatures as an (optional) game aide, and the benefits of spell cards, item cards, buff cards and condition cards are all obvious to me.

Okay so we are in total agreement up to this point...

However, there is something about your suggestion that just doesn't quite sit right with me. I think perhaps it is just a bridge too far for me to follow it... and there is also the issue that I happen to like the depth of the game, which a vastly simplified ruleset probably can't help but sacrifice. (Oh, and I agree with you that unnecessary complexity helps no-one, and that there are too many moving parts... but I can't escape the feeling that a shift to a playable 'board-game' version of the rules would have to be simplified beyond just a clean-up of the skills subsystem, the flight rules, and dragons.)

But that, of course, leaves the designers with an impossible conundrum: I would call on them to simplify the rules to better attract new gamers, and yet at the same time I don't want them to simplify the rules because I like the complexity...

...and then you just go completely off the rails.

I don't know what else I can say. The obvious solution you your problem of complexity is to have a simplified version of the rules that is modular enough to seemlessly adapt advanced rules/features.

I think thats certainly possible to do, although just exactly how close to 3.5 those 'advanced' rules would look is another matter entirely. But then you have to ask yourself if WotC do bring out a pen & paper 4th Ed. of the rules how compatible with 3.5 will it be...and how is that any different from the advanced rules idea I am proffering?

 

[Nonlethal Force]

No, it shouldn't. I'm strongly adamant in my stance that an RPG can use miniatures (and is often better for it!) but it is never a board game. If you want D&D the board game then make one. But please don't call it an RPG or pretend that it is one.

But then again, all I want out of a gaming system is the ability to tell astory. Whether that story is told at the table top or in my Story Hours (Free read, click on the links below!) is irrelevant. I have a mode in 3.5 to put believability in the story. When WotC shifts to 4.0 all that means is I can start spending my money on something else!