Could we please have a non evil/ammoral pact for Warlocks? :)

[Irda Ranger]

The Warlock class is about asking the cosmos "who is giving out free power?" Last i checked morally upstanding entities don't usually do that.

Actually, "charitable giving" is the best argument for a good Warlock. Why wouldn't a powerful Angel of Bahamut work with a Warlock who promised to defeat Evil and spread Law and Justice through the land? Sure, there are Clerics of Bahamut, but so what. Clerics are Leaders, and every now and then there's a good need for "The Hammer of God." - which really sounds more "Striker" to me.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Batman only thinks he's one of the good guys. I think it'd be perfectly possible to create a "good" warlock in 4E using a similar model.

 

[Dragonblade]

The Warlock class is about asking the cosmos "who is giving out free power?" Last i checked morally upstanding entities don't usually do that.

Heh. Neither do evil entities. You just don't realize it isn't "free" until its too late.

Anyway, I too support the notion of having a celestial or "good" power source for warlocks. I think that would be a great idea.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Why removes tieflings? They are not born evil, they are not outsiders. Like drow, orcs, duergar, etc... they can have different world views... And not every good tieflings would be an angsty one.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I don't think a pure good power source, particularly a divine or celestial pact, really works for the Warlock. If you want something like that, the logical course of action is to be a Cleric or Paladin.

The Warlock is entirely built upon the a classic archetype. Insult the archetype as "emo" or "evil-curious" if you want, but it has hundreds of years of history. Allowing there to be an easy way out of the trouble of the class, a way to be a "warlock" of celestial powers, would only dilute the archetype and flavor of the class.

Anyways, as for non-evil pacts... I think a "Shadow" pact would actually fit. Creatures of the shadowfell, especially beings like the archetypical Grim Reaper or other wardens of the boundary between life and death, would not necessarily be evil (in fact, one can argue they shouldn't be evil), but at the same time would not give their power to mortals without a price. That would be an interesting pact, to say the least.

 

[coruscadragon]

To me a warlock's flavor would be immensely diluted if their power didn't have that dark or tainted feel to it. It may be cliché, but then, so is most of DnD.
That being said, there is no reason to feel tied to the 'official' power sources. I have a halfling rogue/warlock who gets her powers from a pact (albiet involuntary) with Tiamet; although she only uses a specific subset of the traditional warlock powers and I treat them more like supernatural abilities than spells, for the purpose of game mechanics, she has levels of warlock (and I must say I much look forwards to updating her to 4E when the time comes).

As others have said, if you like the mechanics of the warlock class, but not the flavor, there's nothing stopping you from repurposing them to suit your own needs.

 

[Aristotle]

I don't think a pure good power source, particularly a divine or celestial pact, really works for the Warlock. If you want something like that, the logical course of action is to be a Cleric or Paladin.

The Warlock is entirely built upon the a classic archetype. Insult the archetype as "emo" or "evil-curious" if you want, but it has hundreds of years of history. Allowing there to be an easy way out of the trouble of the class, a way to be a "warlock" of celestial powers, would only dilute the archetype and flavor of the class.

I'm not buying that argument. Cleric and paladin are both, as of 4E, just as available to evil characters as good ones. Why is it that making pacts with evil doesn't dilute the evil clerics and paladins, but good pacts would?

Pacts with good powers are every bit as valid. As someone else mentioned, sometimes you need someone who is 'chosen' to do the dirty work... even if they are serving the greater good. Good powers, found in most religions and mythologies, have been known to be just as unforgiving as evil ones to those who break deals/pacts... so it can't be an issue of good powers not being able to enforce their pacts.

<<edit: I could have a blast with good warlocks, bound only by their pact and not scripture... the clergy (clerics and paladins) could find themselves at odds with these dangerous heritics.>>

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

a) Well as said, evil isn't "Fun/curious", it's down right nasty You don't bargain with infernal powers and get away with it, no matter what you think!

b) I'd rather warlocks were scary because their powers aren't understood, that some are evil,but warlocks are wielders of raw magical force, at will, and that scares the bejezuz out of more trained, disciplined folk. Conflict between clerics wizards and sorcerors vs warlocks?

Plus, it could be good to have thm draw from Elemental forces, so folk are afraid of them because they represent the raw, dangerous natural forces. Warlocks of Storm, of Fire etc. Hm actually I like that...

Also, they'd fit in well with the God of Death in my homebrew, his followers can be of any alignment, but they kill, and the God doesn't care much about their perosnal reasons as long as they do it within his purvue and rules. Neutral god. Even his Lawful GOod clerics who tend graveyards, the bereaved etc slaughter necromancers (as their diety hates the undead)...so having Warlocks amongst his fold..., endowed with the powers of Entropy, hm

"Good" does not always mean "fluffy bunny", so a "Batman" or religious executioner etc could be interesting too. Stuff being Mr Upstanding Paladin-type!
"The heathens must DIE! Feel the force of my god!"
*eldritch blast leaves behind a smouldering pool of slime*

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Anyway, I think the reason these aren't in the first PHB is that they want the warlock to be the emo "evil-curious" class, the same way the paladin is the shining "Boy Scout" class, and they don't want to dilute that right out of the gate, even if they're building in easy ways to turn both classes against type.

1) You clearly don't know what "emo" means, so I'd stop using it, were I you.

2) Paladins aren't all lawful good anymore, so there's no "type" to turn against.

 

[helium3]

Honestly I am intrigued by the Fey and Star pacts as possibilities for a heroic warlock.

Isn't the Star pact supposed to evoke the whole Cthullu mythos?