Countering Harm

[Darkness]

Spell Immunity only works on spells of 4th level or lower.

Then rule-0 harm to be a 4th-level spell.

 

[Atticus_of_Amber]

My solution

I haven't read the whole thread, but I thought I'd add my solution, in case anyone else found it useful:

Will Save. If the target makes its save, it is reduced to half its current hit points.

It means that Harm, when the target saves, is sort of like the Mass Distrotion spell from the old Xeen CRPG.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yeah, that's the one I use. This makes harm better than slay living in a very concrete way: while slay living is the bane of mage-types (who have low Fort saves and might die from the hp loss even on a successful save), harm puts the hurt on fighter-types and big creatures because it hits them in their soft spot (Will save) and does an insane amount of damage even if they do save. Plus, as pointed out earlier, death ward protects against slay living, but not against harm, and harm can be used to heal undead.

Oh, and if I used the damage cap solution, I'd make it 15 hp per caster level or thereabouts. Otherwise the spell is still a bit weak.

 

[Anubis]

Re: You dont understand

This is directed to CRGreathouse.

Obviously i know that harm heals undead. That is in its unaltered PHB form. What you don't seem to understand is that if you make it a fort save(as monte implies)undead are IMMUNE to anything with a fort save, so they don't have to worry about harm. As i stated before and hold true for any spell with a fort save, undead are immune to the spell UNLESS it can affect objects. Harm in monte's altered state would NOT affect undead because harm does not affect objects, unless specifically stated like disintergrate.

Where did you get the idea that undead are immune to things that allow a Fort save? There is no such rule ANYWHERE in the Core Rules.

Here's an example: UNHOLY BLIGHT. I realize that most undead are evil, but remember that not all undead are. Those undead that are good would be affected by Unholy Blight, and Unholy Blight allows a FORT save. Of, and Unholy Blight does NOT affect objects.

Like I said, that is not in the rules. If it were, you'd might as well get rid of Fort saves for undead.

 

[Victim]

Pasted from the SRD. Emphasis mine.

Undead: Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces. Undead are immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromantic effects, and they ignore mind-influencing effects. Undead are not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain. They have no Constitution scores and are therefore immune to any effect requiring a Fortitude save (unless it affects objects). An undead spellcaster uses its Charisma modifier when making Concentration checks.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Spell Turning doesn't reflect touch attacks.

I made this mistake once. Reread that sentance.

...fails to affect touch range spells.

 

[eXodus]

well harm has not come up in my own game where the pcs are only 5th level i have already have figured out on how i will deal with the dreaded harm spell.

firstly there will be a will save to resist for 8d8 damage. and then on top of it all i will have no problem at all by using the same nasty spell with the villians.

yep.

no problem. what is good for the goose is good for the gander. or something like that!

 

[IceBear]

no problem. what is good for the goose is good for the gander. or something like that!

Of course

IceBear