Coup de Grace

[Stalker0]

It could be that a coup de grace forces an instant death saving throw. If you pass, you are still alive, fail and you die.

 

[MaelStorm]

Countless threads talked about HP in 4E. In 3.5 your character could easily die being hit by one blow. One of the goal in 4E is to change the D&D game, from a game that simulate reality to a game that is cinematic high fantasy. In 4E a 1st level character has much less chance to die easily (starting HP in 4E has tripled compared to 3.5), that's why coup de grace is different now in 4E.

I had some tough moments assimilating the change of flavor (I was used to 2E AD&D). So, I understand your disappointment. This is part of the rite of passage when you transit to 4E. You'll get over it, or won't switch at all.

Cheers.
MS

PS: In short. To answer your question, I feel right about it.

 

[Li Shenron]

I was reading the 4E PHB lite, and was dissapointed to read that a coup de grace in 4E will only allow you to deal maximum weapon damage, with no chance of killing someone or something outright. How do people feel about this? The old coup de grace rule was something that aided my players in "believing" in the abstract hp system.

I hate the possibility of using CdG in combat, so if it is now reduced to max damage, it's good news for me. I wonder why I never thought about it... I will likely make it a house rules for 3.0 games as well.

Out of combat is fine as is, but I'd usually give plenty of spot/listen checks to avoid being caught helpless.

 

[WyzardWhately]

If you manage to sleep a solo monster for a round or two, and there are no other monsters on the field, are you still "in combat?"

 

[Leatherhead]

I hate the possibility of using CdG in combat, so if it is now reduced to max damage, it's good news for me. I wonder why I never thought about it... I will likely make it a house rules for 3.0 games as well.

Out of combat is fine as is, but I'd usually give plenty of spot/listen checks to avoid being caught helpless.

Heroically saving someone who is about to be executed isn't quite as exciting when the executioner can't do anything worse than max damage with a weapon.

 

[WyzardWhately]

I think what really messes with this is overall HP inflation. It's almost okay if only PCs have so much more HP, but if even a peasant has HP approaching 20, so you can't kill ANYTHING in one shot with a sword, while it's asleep...well, then there's a problem.

 

[Lacyon]

I think what really messes with this is overall HP inflation. It's almost okay if only PCs have so much more HP, but if even a peasant has HP approaching 20, so you can't kill ANYTHING in one shot with a sword, while it's asleep...well, then there's a problem.

Peasants are minions. They die in one hit.

 

[frankthedm]

There is no speculation here. This has been confirmed at the DDXP. Attacking a helpless defender just gets you max damage.

If you manage to sleep a solo monster for a round or two, and there are no other monsters on the field, are you still "in combat?"

Yes. This happed at D&DXP, at Mike Mearls's table. The solo Black dragon fell asleep and all the party delivered CDGs, heavily damaging, but NOT killing the dragon.

 

[Li Shenron]

Heroically saving someone who is about to be executed isn't quite as exciting when the executioner can't do anything worse than max damage with a weapon.

The whole excitement for me is executed as soon as players start CdG'ed everything that has been paralyzed by some effect. I don't want to see CdG in combat anymore, period.

 

[catsclaw227]

I think what really messes with this is overall HP inflation.

HP inflation in general, as well as the abstraction of HP has made CdG a bit dodgy.

I am not sure what the ruling should be. If you are upon a sleeping or unconscious person, you should be able to CdG them quite easily. But I still hate the "save or get CdG" spells that exist in 3.x.