So, it's official now. The Elder Elemental Eye has been somehow released from The World of Greyhawk to unleash havoc in the Realms. No fantasy world was described in more detail than the Forgotten Realms, and they still manage to produce not one, but two storylines in a row with themes and antagonists that have nothing to do with the Realms. Good job, Wizards.
Covers Preview for Elemental Evil Adventurer's Handbook and Princes of the Apocalypse!
- Category Dungeons & Dragons
- Thread starter Giltonio_Santos
- Start date
So, it's official now. The Elder Elemental Eye has been somehow released from The World of Greyhawk to unleash havoc in the Realms. No fantasy world was described in more detail than the Forgotten Realms, and they still manage to produce not one, but two storylines in a row with themes and antagonists that have nothing to do with the Realms. Good job, Wizards.
Sometimes the smallest person can change the course of the future.
Raith5
Adventurer
Yeah I dont understand why there is this emphasis on large mega adventures/APs or on the necessity of having a default setting. As a player, long adventures bore the hell out of me and if I DM, I want a world that has a flavour to it (either supplied or homemade). When I look at FR, I cant help that making a setting the default one inherently bleaches any distinctiveness of it. I dont see what is wrong with making setting neutral adventures with a section which gives some ideas as to where is could be located in the various worlds of the D&D game.
Hobbitfan and Raith5, you're both really right. I think the reason Wizards of the Coast is doing it is they're trying to give the D&D brand popularity through these settings. They are like trying to force it to be popular for everyone, though, when they should be marketing such writing to the particular fans of the settings and focusing on the rules for everyone to use. The target audience for an elemental evil adventure, in my opinion, is not every FR fan or every D&D fan, but certain old Greyhawk and old AD&D fans.
I finished running Hoard of the Dragon Queen last night. My group will begin Rise of Tiamat next week. Given that Ed Greenwood was writing about Tiamat in 1983 (his tremendously important articles on the Nine Hells) and that Tiamat herself in D&D predates Dragonlance by several years, I've had no problem with the current FR storyline.
Are the adventures FR stories? Yes, yes they are. The fact is that running them in Krynn would feel utterly wrong. Even running them in Greyhawk would feel wrong to me (and most of my home games in the last 20 years have been set there). And the reason that they are Realms stories is because they take advantage of the characters and societies of the Realms.
I've read a lot of adventures that you could set anywhere, including more than a few that are allegedly set in a particular world. I could conceivably set Hoard on another world, but Rise has so many links to the Realms that changing its location would rip out too much for me to consider it worthwhile.
Now, the Temple of Elemental Evil is entirely a Greyhawk thing, with - in particular - the ties to Iuz and Tsuggtmoy and Prince Thrommel cementing its place there. (Although, to be honest, most of the adventure itself is pretty generic). Tharizdun? Originally Greyhawk. Very much so, although his use in the 4E setting was done extremely well. I've nothing against lifting something originally from one setting to use in another as long as it's done well. The Vault of the Drow and Lolth might have started out in Greyhawk, but far more has been done with them in the Forgotten Realms than ever was done in Greyhawk.
And so we get to the Elder Elemental Eye in the Forgotten Realms. Yeah, I'm a bit conflicted about that. (I'm also very much not a fan of conflating Tharizdun and the Elder Elemental God, although I can well see how it happened.) Using Tharizdun in the Realms first occurred during 4E as part of the Abyssal Plague cross-setting storyline, which I pretty much missed as I was not running D&D Encounters at that stage nor reading the novels. The novel is Sword of the Gods by Bruce Cordell, the adventure is The Elder Elemental Eye. The adventure is pretty dull, although it has one or two redeeming features.
I *am* a big fan of using the Princes of Elemental Evil, though. They are not a part of the original Temple of Elemental Evil design, and only Imix makes an appearance in Monte Cook's 3E revisit of the temple. (I added one or two more when I ran the temple as part of a 4E conversion last year). I think they're criminally underused, and I'd really like to see them appear in this adventure - or at least get referred to.
Ultimately, I'm in a "wait and see" mode. I'm fine with extra elements being added to the Realms, if they're done well. And I'm far more interested in seeing what the people and factions of the Realms do in response than just thinking "this would be better in Greyhawk".
(Indeed, if we ever see new Greyhawk material, it needs to do a lot more on setting up the personality of the world than has been seen in many Greyhawk adventures...)
Cheers!
Are the adventures FR stories? Yes, yes they are. The fact is that running them in Krynn would feel utterly wrong. Even running them in Greyhawk would feel wrong to me (and most of my home games in the last 20 years have been set there). And the reason that they are Realms stories is because they take advantage of the characters and societies of the Realms.
I've read a lot of adventures that you could set anywhere, including more than a few that are allegedly set in a particular world. I could conceivably set Hoard on another world, but Rise has so many links to the Realms that changing its location would rip out too much for me to consider it worthwhile.
Now, the Temple of Elemental Evil is entirely a Greyhawk thing, with - in particular - the ties to Iuz and Tsuggtmoy and Prince Thrommel cementing its place there. (Although, to be honest, most of the adventure itself is pretty generic). Tharizdun? Originally Greyhawk. Very much so, although his use in the 4E setting was done extremely well. I've nothing against lifting something originally from one setting to use in another as long as it's done well. The Vault of the Drow and Lolth might have started out in Greyhawk, but far more has been done with them in the Forgotten Realms than ever was done in Greyhawk.
And so we get to the Elder Elemental Eye in the Forgotten Realms. Yeah, I'm a bit conflicted about that. (I'm also very much not a fan of conflating Tharizdun and the Elder Elemental God, although I can well see how it happened.) Using Tharizdun in the Realms first occurred during 4E as part of the Abyssal Plague cross-setting storyline, which I pretty much missed as I was not running D&D Encounters at that stage nor reading the novels. The novel is Sword of the Gods by Bruce Cordell, the adventure is The Elder Elemental Eye. The adventure is pretty dull, although it has one or two redeeming features.
I *am* a big fan of using the Princes of Elemental Evil, though. They are not a part of the original Temple of Elemental Evil design, and only Imix makes an appearance in Monte Cook's 3E revisit of the temple. (I added one or two more when I ran the temple as part of a 4E conversion last year). I think they're criminally underused, and I'd really like to see them appear in this adventure - or at least get referred to.
Ultimately, I'm in a "wait and see" mode. I'm fine with extra elements being added to the Realms, if they're done well. And I'm far more interested in seeing what the people and factions of the Realms do in response than just thinking "this would be better in Greyhawk".
(Indeed, if we ever see new Greyhawk material, it needs to do a lot more on setting up the personality of the world than has been seen in many Greyhawk adventures...)
Cheers!
Makes me feel like they are snubbing their noses at the story and characters of Greyhawk, and just want to milk it for the things they like, but you're very insightful there, MerricB. Most players who have really participated in all the modern stuff would probably agree with you.
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Meh, good ideas are good ideas, I say. I'm all in favor of taking the cool things from a variety of settings and making them work together in one, as long as they work in that one setting.
That is, I'm totally uninterested in the question "Can we take this thing from Greyhawk?" Of course you can. What's more interesting is "Can we make this thing work in FR?"
That is, I'm totally uninterested in the question "Can we take this thing from Greyhawk?" Of course you can. What's more interesting is "Can we make this thing work in FR?"
They owe Greyhawk about 20 years of setting support. With that in mind, celebrating it along with the release of their next adventure is logical, easy, and pleasing to the fans.
Scrivener of Doom
Adventurer
Owe? Again, this is basic business: if there was demand for Greyhawk products, I am sure those products would be produced. Clearly WotC has determined that their best bet in this industry is to focus on FR right now. Greyhawk obviously doesn't sell well enough to enjoy support.
If they had tried and failed, then they would be able to say that, but they haven't.
Scrivener of Doom
Adventurer
Yes, tried and failed in 1E, 2E, and 3E.
I suppose they've learnt not to flog that dead horse any more....
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