Craft (alchemy) now useless for identifying potions?

[Alchemist]

It's expensive and in addition it takes too long to produce something, but what I 'd have really liked is a way to implement higher DCs in the items effects by rolling against higher Craft difficulties.

What about Alchemist's Fire having +1 Reflex DC for every additional +2 on the Craft check DC? or +1d6 damage per +10 Craft check DC? They're just examples, haven't thought really about the numbers, but I guess it shows the idea.

Nice sheet Alchemist, very useful. Pfarn the gnome thanks you!

Thanks. After all that this community has done for me, it's the least I could do.

Playing with numbers, reducing the price by 1/2 churns out twice as many units of production in the same time frame, effectively producing twice as quickly. Also, the highly skilled can voluntarily take +10 to the craft DC to crank stuff out quicker.

I like the idea of scaling the items. If any of you every played the CRPG Darklands (released in 1992 under DOS), they had a very robust alchemical system. Essentially, every formula came in 3 forms: Easy, Medium and Hard. The easiest used the least materials and was, well, easy to sucessfuly complete the conversion without blowing up the inn you were staying at; they didn't have a very large effect though. The hardest formulae were much more effective but required rarer components. I've been mulling over some sort of conversion for some time. I may have to do it.

 

[Conaill]

The problem with crafting times isn't specific to Craft (Alchemy). Essentially, the designers never intended the Craft skills to be more than just "flavor" (I remember a comment from one of the designers where he pretty much explicitly admitted that).

For a traveling, adenturing PC, Crafting is pretty much infeasible because it takes weeks to do the simplest thing. The solution we've adapted in our campaign is to calculate crafting progress in sp/day, rather than sp/week (so 7 times fast than "by the book"). Crafting is still a hassle, but it now becomes feasible at least. And it's still far from being overpowered, considering that a magical crafter will be cranking stuff out at 1000 gp/day!

If 7x isn't sufficient for you, you could switch to gp/week (10x faster), or even gp/day (70x faster). Even in the latter case, the magical crafter will still outstrip you, unless you start making DC 30+ items...

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Pickup Alchemy & Herbalists and the Craft skill won't be so useless.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If you think alchemy is worthless, seen the epic alchemy feat?

Wohoo! I'm a level 21+ character and I can spend a few days making a single vial of fire that does 2d6 damage!!!

 

[Silveras]

Unearthed Arcana has a variant called Craft Points. It allows you to use Craft Points to make things "on the road", presumably between watches, etc.

Characters earn Craft Points every level, gain some for each Item Creation feat they take, and can also take specific feats just to get more points. Characters can also collaborate, and share the Craft Point cost of making some things.

Craft Points apply to mundane items, Alchemical items, and magical items.

I also like that there are additional feats for making masterwork goods. Now there is a reason why the NPC in town is a better craftsman than the adventurer of the same level. The Craft Alchemical Items feat also replaces the need for being a spellcaster when making Alchemical items.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

If you think alchemy is worthless, seen the epic alchemy feat?

Wohoo! I'm a level 21+ character and I can spend a few days making a single vial of fire that does 2d6 damage!!!

Sweet I so know what my 1st epic feat is now.

Seriosuly one of my biggest gripes with the epic book is how unepic many of the feats seemed.

 

[Conaill]

Pickup Alchemy & Herbalists and the Craft skill won't be so useless.

Sorry, but as someone who has been playing an alchemist PC for well over two years now, and who has read pretty much every alchemy supplement around... frankly, I think A&H sucks!

I could probably go on for hours about why I dislike this book, but let me just give you a few reasons: (1) Caster Level requirements for alchemical items. Ugh! (2) Unbalanced with respect to every other published alchemical preparations - *including* the ones in the PHB. (3) Lots and lots of inconsistencies and poorly designed rules. (4) Craft DCs that are way too low (the designer didn't realize you can take 10 on Craft skills). Etcetera...

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I was referring more to the sheer volume of new items you can create, rather than the mechanics for creating them. If the mechanics are broken, they can be rather easily adjusted. I was tremendously impressed with all the stuff in Alchemy & Herbalists and it is one of the few 3rd-party books I have that I am still happy to have purchased.

 

[Conaill]

Eh, I have about 285 alchemical preparations collected from various other sources. Sure there's a few balance issues here and there, but mostly minor. Compared to these, the stuff listed in A&H seems to vary wildly all over the place in terms of power level.

For example, did you know the A&H designers actually took the PHB alchemical items, and radically lowered their DC's? The table with changed core items didn't make it into the final product, but that's what they used to try balance the rest of their items! You can have alook at it in their "e-Alchemy" preview. For example, Tanglefoot bags (normally DC 25 to create) were rescaled to DC 13, meaning that just about *anybody* with a rank in Alchemy can create them without any chance of failure by taking 10. Heck, they gave Smokesticks a craft DC of 10!

Don't get me started...

 

[tensen]

Eh, I have about 285 alchemical preparations collected from various other sources. Sure there's a few balance issues here and there, but mostly minor. Compared to these, the stuff listed in A&H seems to vary wildly all over the place in terms of power level.

285? Are there really that many out there? It would be great to see that list.