Subtle Knife
Explorer
Hello, all!
I find myself vexed by mundane crafting rules once again.
On pp337-339 of the Adventurer's Guide, it has rules on using Artisan's Tools to craft objects of specific values. It looks like smithing tools is no longer an 'Artisan's Tool'? This seems odd, as smithing is what you need to forge weapons, many types of armor. But I digress....
On pp426-428 of the same book, it has rules on crafting as well, but these seem...different...from the rules on pp337-339?
It seems really unclear when to use which set of rules. Having these rules widely spaced apart in the book does not help.
I'm very happy that the armor table (pp319-320) has guidance on tools for repair and associated DCs, but it would additionally be helpful to have guidance and DCs for crafting - what tool set, what DC?
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Let's take a suit of Leather Brigandine armor (normal quality) as an example - medium armor, 20gp value. What artisan's tool(s) do you need to be proficient to craft this?
Let's assume it is Leatherworker's Tools (to fashion the leather foundation of this garment):
- according to the table on p338, the maximum value of any leatherworking craft, at a stunning DC of 25+, is 15gp. So based on this table, no one could actually ever craft Leather Brigandine of normal quality?
- according to pp426-428, it would take 10gp of materials and 2 weeks
If we assume Smith's Tools (to fashion the metal plates to be attached):
- the table on p337 provides no guidance - smith's tools are not used for crafting (tell that to any blacksmith!)
- according to pp426-428, same as above
This then calls into question as to the purpose of the rules on pp337-339?
If later I need to repair this suit of armor, I need to be proficient with Sewing Kits. OK. So my leatherworking tools aren't sufficient for that, even though I may have previously used those tools to literally sew the components together? Invoking a new 'repair' toolkit seems unnecessary to my mind - the tool you craft something with maybe ought to be useful in their repair...?
----
My points:
- crafting rules should be clear and explicit in what toolset is used when, without a conflicting 'two-tier' process.
- having the repair guidance in the armor table is excellent; include similar guidance for crafting in the table!
- you can provide 'fine/masterwork/special material' item crafting guidance as modifiers on base DC, cost
- do the same for weapons!!!!
- If I break my grandfather's masterwork sword, I might want to repair that!
- put all these rules in the same place!
- artisan's tools used for crafting should be useful in repairing the same objects (Sewing Kit?!?)
I find myself vexed by mundane crafting rules once again.
On pp337-339 of the Adventurer's Guide, it has rules on using Artisan's Tools to craft objects of specific values. It looks like smithing tools is no longer an 'Artisan's Tool'? This seems odd, as smithing is what you need to forge weapons, many types of armor. But I digress....
On pp426-428 of the same book, it has rules on crafting as well, but these seem...different...from the rules on pp337-339?
It seems really unclear when to use which set of rules. Having these rules widely spaced apart in the book does not help.
I'm very happy that the armor table (pp319-320) has guidance on tools for repair and associated DCs, but it would additionally be helpful to have guidance and DCs for crafting - what tool set, what DC?
----
Let's take a suit of Leather Brigandine armor (normal quality) as an example - medium armor, 20gp value. What artisan's tool(s) do you need to be proficient to craft this?
Let's assume it is Leatherworker's Tools (to fashion the leather foundation of this garment):
- according to the table on p338, the maximum value of any leatherworking craft, at a stunning DC of 25+, is 15gp. So based on this table, no one could actually ever craft Leather Brigandine of normal quality?
- according to pp426-428, it would take 10gp of materials and 2 weeks
If we assume Smith's Tools (to fashion the metal plates to be attached):
- the table on p337 provides no guidance - smith's tools are not used for crafting (tell that to any blacksmith!)
- according to pp426-428, same as above
This then calls into question as to the purpose of the rules on pp337-339?
If later I need to repair this suit of armor, I need to be proficient with Sewing Kits. OK. So my leatherworking tools aren't sufficient for that, even though I may have previously used those tools to literally sew the components together? Invoking a new 'repair' toolkit seems unnecessary to my mind - the tool you craft something with maybe ought to be useful in their repair...?
----
My points:
- crafting rules should be clear and explicit in what toolset is used when, without a conflicting 'two-tier' process.
- having the repair guidance in the armor table is excellent; include similar guidance for crafting in the table!
- you can provide 'fine/masterwork/special material' item crafting guidance as modifiers on base DC, cost
- do the same for weapons!!!!
- If I break my grandfather's masterwork sword, I might want to repair that!
- put all these rules in the same place!
- artisan's tools used for crafting should be useful in repairing the same objects (Sewing Kit?!?)