Creating magic items - broken

[zlorf]

Hi,

I saw a wizards article, saying that some 1st lvl spells used to make continuous magic items
using the formula provided in the DMG (p285) may cost alot less than their worth, ie Ring of True Strike.

Others have come to mind are Boot of Expedious Retreat (4000gp i think) equating to +30 movement always if continuous...seems like a bargin to me

I understand it might be best practice to use existing item that does something similar as a price indicator. But for some items their isnt really a match.

One item that has come up is a Ring of Shield with 3 charges
Cost = 1*1*2000gp*4 then multiply by 3/5
Cost = 4800gp
Benefits: +4 AC shield bonus 3 times a day.
A bargin? to my players it is, considering that it would pretty much cover most of the combat during the day.


Does anyone have any hard and fast rules they might apply? Or isn't really a issue and that
the players should be able to by items like this.


Cheers
Z

 

[BlueBlackRed]

That's why DMs have the power - they can say no.

I have a group with a warmage and a wizard.
The rules, depending on how you read them, allow for the two of them to get together and scribe a scroll for every spell in the warmage's repertoire, then the wizard can scribe them into her spellbook.
Although that was not unreasonable, I didn't like how they could so easily (given time and money) get around the DM's control of what spells the wizard can get beyond the 2/level. Plus I felt it was an abuse of the rules.

 

[Li Shenron]

The problem is most obviously the duration of the original spell. Since we're talking about continuously active magic items, they cannot be balanced in price just with the level of the spell.

Obviously, a spell with duration 24 hours turned into a permanent item has a minimum benefit, and a spell which lasts a single round or even a fraction of it (like True Strike) has a maximum benefit. They cannot cost the same price because the spell level is the same!

 

[Jack Simth]

Hi,

I saw a wizards article, saying that some 1st lvl spells used to make continuous magic items
using the formula provided in the DMG (p285) may cost alot less than their worth, ie Ring of True Strike.

Others have come to mind are Boot of Expedious Retreat (4000gp i think) equating to +30 movement always if continuous...seems like a bargin to me

Yep; too much of one - boots of Expedious Retreat, guidelines, work out to 4k... while boots of Striding and Sprining cost 5.5k, and only grant +10 feet of movement and +5 to jump checks.

I understand it might be best practice to use existing item that does something similar as a price indicator. But for some items their isnt really a match.

One item that has come up is a Ring of Shield with 3 charges
Cost = 1*1*2000gp*4 then multiply by 3/5
Cost = 4800gp
Benefits: +4 AC shield bonus 3 times a day.
A bargin? to my players it is, considering that it would pretty much cover most of the combat during the day.

You've got the math off for the standard guidelines; a continuous widget of Shield would be spell*caster*base continuous*duration factor = 1*1*2000*2=4,000 gp. A Continuous Widget of Mage Armor would be even less - 1*1*2000*1=2,000 gp. Meanwhile, Bracers of Armor +4 cost 16k, and a Shield Ring uses up the hand and the ring slot, costs 8.5k, and only gives +2 Shield AC. Similar items can be a giveaway.

Does anyone have any hard and fast rules they might apply? Or isn't really a issue and that
the players should be able to by items like this.


Cheers
Z

Yeah. If it gives a numeric bonus, you're required to find an item that gives a bonus to the same thing. Then scale it based on the bonus^2 pattern. If this would put it over 200,000 gp, then it's an Epic item, and incurs the *10 Epic modifier. So the +30 movement would cost you nine times what the boots of Striding and Sprining do (3*3*base). Continuous Shield would cost you four times a Shield Ring (2*2 to 4*4 = 4 to 16 = 1 to 4). Charged per-day items that would reasonably cover the entire day are priced as continuous.

So Continuous True Strike would cost you 8,000,000 gp, slotted.

Personal spells where there isn't a numeric bonus, and no existing similar item, can't be made into items.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Does anyone have any hard and fast rules they might apply? Or isn't really a issue and that the players should be able to by items like this.

It is definitely an issue, but I've found that the best guidance is experience. The DM should be experienced enough to handle custom item creation before allowing it. I would suggest to inexperienced DMs to stick with book-items (being very careful for splatbooks or third-party books) or to post in this forum for advice and a look-over on custom items (we're more than happy to offer opinions).

 

[Bad Paper]

regarding boots of expeditious retreat

We allowed these in our campaign by making them an activated item (three one-minute uses per day) instead of a continuous item. Much more balanced that way.

 

[green slime]

Good Morning sunshine!

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

It is definitely an issue, but I've found that the best guidance is experience. The DM should be experienced enough to handle custom item creation before allowing it. I would suggest to inexperienced DMs to stick with book-items (being very careful for splatbooks or third-party books) or to post in this forum for advice and a look-over on custom items (we're more than happy to offer opinions).

Bingo, there.

I'm a GM not afraid at all to say "no", so I usually allow custom items, even in games where I'm limiting everything to the Core Rules Only. Sometimes, there's something fun that you'd like to do that wasn't built as an item.

I can say that, thus-far, I've never allowed into any of my games any custom items that have had detrimental effects on my game. I encourage the players to build "flavor" items that have no real bearing on combat, certainly, and when some smart-arse says: "How about a Ring Of Continual True Strike" I just give him the hairy eye and we all laugh about it.

For instance, in the game I'm playing in now, our characters have been invited to a fancy ball. We've decided to "show out" a little, and so several of us wanted to buy enchanted clothing ... but there aren't really any rules to that effect. So we put together Command-Activated continual outfits with spells like Silent Image and Dancing Lights and Ghost Sounds. The female cleric will be wearing a gown with glowing doves circling around it (dancing lights + silent image) and birdsong (ghost sounds). My character will be wearing rich clerical vestments with an ostentatious halo of light (like mideval illuminated catholic manuscripts, via Light) and sourceless chanting of prayers to St. Cuthbert (ghost sounds).

Nothing that MEANS anything, in game terms, but it was sort of fun putting together the costs and the spell requirements and spending a few thousand GP on, essentially, role-playing items that won't really do anything ... unless we get stuck in a dark cave or something ... then I suppose the 20' Light spell coming off my character's head will come in handy.

THAT is what I, personally, like to see people do with custom item rules.

--fje

 

[frankthedm]

Those costs are guidelines for magic item creation. They get the DM to the ballpark to set the price. If an item seems cheap for the price those guidelines come out to, then yes, the item is too cheap, raise the price!

Those are not G.U.R.P.S. character creation rules.

 

[Thanee]

Does anyone have any hard and fast rules they might apply? Or isn't really a issue and that the players should be able to by items like this.

If there are multiple ways to price an item (like a ring of Shield, which could be priced as a continuous item, or as an item providing a +4 AC bonus), always use the most expensive one.

Never take for granted, that you can create any item you want. Without the DM's express consent, no item creation of completely new items is possible.

Bye
Thanee