Critical Hits and Fumbles

[Mercurius]

In my last game session, one of the characters rolled a 1 so I had him roll another attack roll: He rolled a 1 again. I figured that the 1-in-400 chance was too good to miss so I determined that he (or she, his character) had stabbed him (her) self in the thigh for max damage, although without the backstabbing bonus.

The reason for the 2nd roll is that I have been a bit underwhelmed with critical hits (and fumbles): max damage hardly seems all that exciting. So what I'm playing with is a quick-and-easy ad hoc system whereby if a player rolls a natural 20 (or 1) they re-roll; a "miss" means just the usual critical hit, max damage; a second hit against the target AC means double max damage; a second critical would be triple, with a third roll, and so it would continue, like so:

Critical Hit, 1st Roll
Natural 20 - Max damage, roll again

Critical Hit, 2nd Roll
Miss against target AC - max damage
Hit against target AC - 2 x max damage
2nd natural 20 - 3 x max damage, roll again

Critical Hit, 3rd Roll
Miss against target AC - 3 x max damage
Hit against target AC - 4 x max damage
3rd natural 20 - 5 x max damage, roll again, etc

Alternative I was thinking of capping it at the 3rd roll, with three natural 20s in a row--considering there is only a 1-in-8,000 chance of happening--being 10 x max damage.

Something similar for "Critical Fumbles":

Critical Fumble, 1st Roll
Natural 1 - Miss, drop weapon

Critical Fumble, 2nd Roll
Hit - Miss, drop weapon
Miss - Miss, damage on self or friend
Natural 1 - max damage on self or friend, roll again

Critical Fumble, 3rd Roll
Hit - done
Miss - 2 x max damage on self or friend
Natural 1 - 3 x max damage on self or friend, roll again

What do you think? Do you have any good (simple) house rules for critical hits and fumbles?

 

[robotsinmyhead]

I've always hated critical fumble rules in RPG games. The idea that a character could potentially commit suicide/kill a friend because the dice rolled bad is not worth the possibility of getting a big crit damage bonus.

I've played in more than a few games where critical fumble rules (even mild ones) have completely wrecked the game for me. YMMV, but the way 4e handles criticals hits (and the lack of critical fumbles) is the best way to handle things.

The only time I used critical fumble rules is when a character is doing something obviously risky or attempting to do something dangerous untrained.

 

[DanmarLOK]

It's been discussed a bunch. To sum up the arguments against, in the end it just doesn't feel very heroic to drop your sword 1 out of every 20 swings or stab yourself 1 in 50 or kill yourself 1 in 400. (a bit overly exaggerated but you get the gist of it).

Also it doesn't make any sense that a level 30 godling drops his sword as often as a level 1 fresh off the farm boy.

It also severely penalizes classes that make attack rolls with weapons versus everyone else and penalizes those that habitually make multiple attack rolls per round (ranger etc) over all the other fighters.

Of course if you and your players are having fun then by all means, there's a ton of critical hit charts and tables out there, someone just came out with Critical Matters that has page upon page of critical hits and misses for every possible type of damage you can do in 4e.

Just be aware that unless you account for the differences in classes you're penalizing some a lot more than others for something they have no control over. Unless you allow them to coat their hands with sovereign glue or whatever it's called...

 

[timex]

I own and use Critical Matters by Final Redoubt Press. It only has rules for Critical Hits (at least the edition I bought does). The first session I used it, I almost killed half the party... I rolled 4 criticals and over 80% on 3 of them. Their tables are accessed using a percentile roll, by attack damage type. I had two severed spines and a crushed eye-socket. It was TONS of fun for me, but the players were NOT impressed. After some careful reading, the supplement suggests that you only use the critical hits tables against the party when they are facing a substantial threat like an elite or solo beastie. SInce then, I've been more selective in how and where I use it.

There was mention initially of a Critical Fumbles product but I have been watching their product line and there has been no further mention of it. I suspect that the author, like many of us, has come to realize that critical fumbles can really ruin a gaming session and that their primary market for such a product would be a niche market at best.

I can heartily recommend the Critical Matters product to anyone looking to houserule the stock crit hit system from WotC. My gaming group and I LOVE it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Critical Miss rules tend to break down conceptually, as well as being not so fun for the party. I remember one RPG system that famously had a crit miss system where we calculated that if you had 100 soldiers fighting another 100 soldiers for 10 minutes on average they would all decapitate themselves, and do so BEFORE they wiped out the other side.

I would think that characters (and monsters) who are considered to be pretty experienced with weapons would VERY rarely cause someone an accidental injury. On the order of once in 1000's of rounds of combat. Something that might not be TOO out of line would maybe be on a 1 and a subsequent 1 you drop your weapon (usually not a huge deal, it might cost you a minor action to pick it up or draw another one). One a THIRD one, then maybe you do some minor accidental damage to an ally. Even so it is kind of hard to see it being major damage, you aren't trying to whack him with all your might, he just got in the way of your backswing or whatever.

As far as critical hits go I'm satisfied with what we have now in terms of damage potential. As far as 'fluff' goes, by all means describe them in whatever gruesome way you like. Remember though, 'hits' in D&D don't really DO much to a target until they get to 0 hit points. It is more like you're wearing down their endurance, maybe making minor wounds, etc. Once that last killing blow lands, then sure, you chopped through his spine, he's dead. I suppose it is a matter of taste, but gore really isn't exactly what I'm after in an RPG. A real sword fight would be unutterably gross. Kind of takes the excitement out of things IMHO.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I am guessing you are playing 4e..i couldn't tell for certain by your post.

Just keep in mind....in 4e critical hits aren't just max damage....they are max damage plus an extra handful of dice depending on what kind of weapon you have and what its properties are.

For example...a critical with a Distance Dagger +2 is truly just max damage. A critical with a Vicious Greataxe +2 is max damage + 3d12.

DS

 

[Rechan]

For example...a critical with a Distance Dagger +2 is truly just max damage. A critical with a Vicious Greataxe +2 is max damage + 3d12.

You're also forgetting the +2d6 damage for critting with a +2 weapon.

 

[Alex319]

It's been discussed a bunch. To sum up the arguments against, in the end it just doesn't feel very heroic to drop your sword 1 out of every 20 swings or stab yourself 1 in 50 or kill yourself 1 in 400. (a bit overly exaggerated but you get the gist of it).

Also it doesn't make any sense that a level 30 godling drops his sword as often as a level 1 fresh off the farm boy.

It also severely penalizes classes that make attack rolls with weapons versus everyone else and penalizes those that habitually make multiple attack rolls per round (ranger etc) over all the other fighters.

Of course if you and your players are having fun then by all means, there's a ton of critical hit charts and tables out there, someone just came out with Critical Matters that has page upon page of critical hits and misses for every possible type of damage you can do in 4e.

Just be aware that unless you account for the differences in classes you're penalizing some a lot more than others for something they have no control over. Unless you allow them to coat their hands with sovereign glue or whatever it's called...

Yes. And think of it this way: On average, a PC will make about 1500 attack rolls over his career (say 1 attack roll per round * 5 rounds of combat per encounter * 10 encounters per level * 30 levels). So if you have a 1 in 400 chance of killing yourself on each attack, then on average each PC will kill himself almost four times over the course of his career (and more for multi-attack-per-round characters)

 

[JiffyPopTart]

You're also forgetting the +2d6 damage for critting with a +2 weapon.

What?

The Distance Dagger doesn't get the +2d6....It took me a question on ENWorld to figure that one out.

And the Vicious gets 2d12 instead of 2d6...because thats pretty much what vicious does.

DS

 

[fissionessence]

My favorite critical miss solution I've seen is the 'unbalanced' rule from a recent thread here. When you roll a 1, you become unbalanced, giving you a -1 to defenses and the inability to flank. You can spend a minor action to stop being unbalanced (my house rule above and beyond the initial post by Tarrism is that you can't spend the minor action on the same turn you rolled the fumble). In addition to those penalties of being unbalanced, others have the chance to trip or disarm you, or sunder your weapon. You can also do a 'minor feint' to cause your target to become unbalanced (without them having to roll a 1, but in my version when you 'minor feint' they are only unbalanced to you, not anyone else). I ran this past my players, but one didn't want to worry about anything bad happening if they rolled a 1, and I didn't want to enforce in rules that didn't get a unanimous vote, so I don't know how it would all play out.

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