D&D 5E Critical Hits Appears to be Next in D&D Archive

[Jayouzts]

Dumbing Down

I can do math---but I don't do it for fun.

And you are coming off as insulting.

I did not intend to insult anyone. I apologize if that is how I came off.

What is insulting to me is the "lets-coddle-the-players" attitude behind this and other changes. I never considered missing a crit "disappointing". And its not just this change.

Lets change crits because its disappointing when I miss the confirmation roll.
Lets get rid of level drain because its sucks to lose levels.
Lets get rid of save or die because dying in this manner is no fun.

And so on. It all feels like those places where they have little league but they do not keep score. In other words, the game seems less challenging to the players.

I realize they are trying to appeal to more players, but they seem to be doing it by appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Yes, I know I am in the minority. Yes, I know this sells more books. Yes I know I will be the only one in my neighborhood who doesn't switch. But I do not have to like it.

 

[Wormwood]

I realize they are trying to appeal to more players, but they seem to be doing it by appealing to the lowest common denominator.

aaaand I'm done.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I don't agree at all that getting an auto-hit on a natural 20 is some kind of prize.

The only reason it would work as a prize is if you can't hit at all unless you roll a natural 20. This happens in 3E only because of large numbers of iterative attacks (and only for the classes which make heavy use of iterative attacks). For any other class or situation in 3E, then it would never come up. If you have only a 5% chance of actually succeeding at something, then the only reasonable option would be to not even make the attempt, and instead spend the time and effort on something that has a chance of working.

In 4E, characters are not going to have iterative attacks. for the most part, every character will be using single attack rolls at full bonus. What is more, the math is being redone so that every character will have a reasonable chance to succeed on these rolls at every level.

So, whatever small value getting an auto-hit on a natural 20 may have had in 3E will be completely removed in 4E. The other changes to the game system are mandating a change to the critical hit rules. What may not have been redundant before now has become redundant.

For similar reasons, I don't think using the situation of "only hitting on a natural 20" is a reasonable situation to use to balance critical hit rules.

 

[BryonD]

The math suggests you're misremembering. If you roll 2d6, you have 36 possible results. Of these, 10 results are 5 or less (less than max. damage) and 10 results are 9 or more (50% more than max. damage). Of course, almost half the time you're rolling max. damage or slightly better.

You are leaving out the bonuses which virtually always put the math way over the top.

If you roll 2d6+8 you have 36 possible results, 35 of which are greater than 10 (max of 1d6+4).

My memory is quite fine.

 

[BryonD]

I did not intend to insult anyone. I apologize if that is how I came off.

I'm with you. It is dumbing down. And 3X crits don't remotely qualify as "doing math" to me.
I sitting here with my hands up trying to think of a way to respond.
My 9 year old daughter doesn't miss a beat with this stuff.
And yet people say it is insulting to them to suggest that it isn't hard.
It becomes an absurd self contained argument where you either agree or you are a jerk.

I have absolutely no desire to insult anyone.

 

[BryonD]

I don't agree at all that getting an auto-hit on a natural 20 is some kind of prize.

The only reason it would work as a prize is if you can't hit at all unless you roll a natural 20. This happens in 3E only because of large numbers of iterative attacks (and only for the classes which make heavy use of iterative attacks). For any other class or situation in 3E, then it would never come up. If you have only a 5% chance of actually succeeding at something, then the only reasonable option would be to not even make the attempt, and instead spend the time and effort on something that has a chance of working.

In 4E, characters are not going to have iterative attacks. for the most part, every character will be using single attack rolls at full bonus. What is more, the math is being redone so that every character will have a reasonable chance to succeed on these rolls at every level.

So, whatever small value getting an auto-hit on a natural 20 may have had in 3E will be completely removed in 4E. The other changes to the game system are mandating a change to the critical hit rules. What may not have been redundant before now has become redundant.

For similar reasons, I don't think using the situation of "only hitting on a natural 20" is a reasonable situation to use to balance critical hit rules.

This is a good point. I still think a more elegant system than a straight 5% could be made. But this is a good point.

 

[Wolfspider]

If everyone automatically crits on a 20, then being able to land a devastating blow on an opponent is completely a matter of chance and has nothing whatsoever to do with skill. A farmer is just as likely to strike a devastating blow as a mighty epic hero.

Thoughts about this phenomenon?

 

[HeinorNY]

No, we do know from the article:

"Magic weapons (and implements for magical attacks) add extra damage on crits. So your +1 frost warhammer deals an extra 1d6 damage on a critical hit (so your crit's now up to 14+1d6 damage in the example above). [...]

Crits can be improved in a couple of other ways. Weapons can have the high crit property, giving extra dice on a crit. [...]

In addition, some powers and magic items have extra effects on a hit."​

We just don't know many specifics about any of these modifiers to crits, and we do actually know the specifics of how the +1 frost warhammer adds to a crit.

thanks, I missed that part

 

[Khaim]

I did not intend to insult anyone. I apologize if that is how I came off.

What is insulting to me is the "lets-coddle-the-players" attitude behind this and other changes. I never considered missing a crit "disappointing". And its not just this change.

If you're going to pretend to not be insulting, you might want to try giving someone the benefit of the doubt. In other words, just pretend, just for a bit, that maybe the reason behind the change is to make the game better.

Lets change crits because its disappointing when I miss the confirmation roll.
Lets get rid of level drain because its sucks to lose levels.
Lets get rid of save or die because dying in this manner is no fun.

It is, it does, and it's not. What I'm confused by is why you think these are "bad" reasons- are you claiming that one of these is fun in 3e? From where I'm standing, the designers are trying to get rid of legacy mechanics that aren't worth it, either from a complexity standpoint (hellooo, grapple) or just a fun standpoint (save-or-dies).

And so on. It all feels like those places where they have little league but they do not keep score. In other words, the game seems less challenging to the players.

Gah! I swear, people had the exact same knee-jerk reaction when 4e was first announced: "this is going to be too easy!" Well, I hate to tell you, but you're talking out of your ass. You have NO CLUE how challenging the game is going to be. All you have are a few dozen design notes and a handful of out-of-context mechanics.

I realize they are trying to appeal to more players, but they seem to be doing it by appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Yes, I know I am in the minority. Yes, I know this sells more books. Yes I know I will be the only one in my neighborhood who doesn't switch. But I do not have to like it.

No, you don't. But those of us in the "lowest common denominator", also known as "people who like to have fun", will by happily playing 4e when you're still hitting yourself in the head. All I ask is that you stop cluttering up the 4e threads by whining about it.

 

[GravyFingerz]

I wish 4e was out already, so I could say: "Ever since I switched to 4e, I developed a brain tumor. But I'm still having fun."