Crtitique my Pharmacist?

[garnuk]

Hi,
A while ago I created a homebrew class I call the Pharmacist. I was wondering if I could get some constructive criticism about the class, mostly in regards to balance.

So far the character hasn't really shined or outshined any of the other players, but I'm curious if that's because the player plays in a very relaxed manner, or if the DMG guidelines worked out well.

Thanks!

 

[transcendantviewer]

I'm going to bring up the issues I find as I find them, in order. First, no class has proficiency in shields without first having proficiency in medium armor. There's a feat that grants proficiency in both for a reason. Second, what is a censer? It's a weapon, but I'm not seeing stats for it. Third, just reading this, it's beginning to sound more and more like just a strange Wizard. It's got spells that are just in the form of items. Nothing wrong with that, but it's using rules that don't seem necessary. It's creating new rules just so it can function rather than using existing ones. It may be balanced, but it doesn't feel like 5e content. It overcomplicates itself and the game at large. If you wanted to make it a subclass or something along those lines, it could be done with relative ease, but it would have a much different feel.

 

[transcendantviewer]

Next set of problems; the creation rules are too quick. I realize that this is your thing, but it doesn't make sense to be capable of creating potions on a whim in just a couple of hours when the amount of time it takes an experienced Herbalist with real magic is days or even weeks. Same rings true for pills, poisons, and incense. You're pumping them out too quickly. This seems like something that should be supplementary. Something that a warrior learns to do in order to improve his battle effectiveness. Like what tribes do; use poisons to weaken enemies however they can and then strike with deadly efficiency.

 

[transcendantviewer]

Now, I'll move more on to the class features. The big one that sticks out is the level 6 feature: Enhanced Visions. I like the ability, very flavorful, but the flaw is too weak of a tradeoff for the ability. You're pumping yourself full of drugs to improve your ability to perceive the world around you. Having a lasting effect like "Using this ability more than once between long rests gives you disadvantage on Dexterity Saving Throws and Dexterity based Skill Checks." A flaw like that off-sets the bonus and doesn't require the "50% chance of seeing things that aren't there". Which, again, is flavorful, but makes things unnecessarily complicated.
The Enhanced Insights feature defeats itself. You gain Advantage on Charisma Saving Throws and add double your Proficiency Bonus to them, but have a 50% chance of mistaking enemies for allies? What's the point of having Advantage on Charisma Saves if the Vampire can just Tell you to kill your friends? This ability is under-powered, despite its useful effects. Remove the 50% false perception effect and give either a proper counter to it, or change the ability. These are integral features to the class. No one's going to want these.
Now, I'll talk about the level 19 and 20 abilities. The level 19 ability is very flavorful and I like it. But, it's depending upon DM's Discretion. Bad. Much of this class is leaning on the DM to counteract its gaps and faults. That's just bad design. It should be air-tight as-is, but not be a wall of text. The level 20 ability doesn't make sense. Ignoring a virulent poison that you're inhaling with every breath isn't a "Mind Over Body" kind of thing. You're dying. Make your Constitution Save and like it. Now, if this was something along the lines of "When you create an alchemical substance, you also create an antidote or antitoxin for it, granting you limited immunity to its effects. While under the effects of a poison or similar alchemical effect, you make Constitution Saving Throws against the effect at Advantage. In addition, you can drink an antidote, curing yourself of a poison or effect that you created."
I don't know if I'll have the time to really sit down and read the archetypes, but as it stands, it's a start that could become something really interesting. Keep working on it and I'm sorry if my feedback seemed rude or anything like that.

 

[transcendantviewer]

One last thing to consider is that many enemies will be completely immune to this class's shenanigans. That's worse than what used to happen to Wizards against golems, at least high level wizards could lock them away in a Wall of Force and be done with it, this class has nothing like that. Something with a high Constitution Save (most things, since Constitution is the most steadily increasing ability score among monsters in the game) and any instance of Legendary Resistance is practically immune to this class's best abilities and can outright ignore the lesser ones. That's a brick wall if I've ever seen one. At least Fighters can rip a guy's throat out with a poleaxe to stop him casting spells, or a wizard could even teleport away. This class has no such means of dealing with its bad match ups. Assassin = dead. Fighter = very likely dead. Paladin = murdified. Wizard = Fiery Death. And that's just against other classes, monsters are much more unpredictable.

 

[garnuk]

Thanks for your input. A few things.
1. A censer is not a weapon. It's a container which holds incense. You could use is it as an improvised weapon. For the pharmacist, its the means of delivering incense prepared recipes to their target.

2. The pharmacist is intended as a support class. Either to help cure people of diseases, or administer poisons when appropriate. While the strongest attacks all focus on CON saving throws, not all the attacks do.

3. One of the main reasons why I was asked to make this class was because it was felt that item creation rules were not really suitable for play. While the pharmacist can make items quickly, they also lose their potency quickly. I thought it was a fair trade off. What would you suggest instead?

4. I'm not sure what existing rules could be used to do mundane spell-like items. I tried to reuse the existing abilities as much as possible. What exactly did you have in mind?

5. Some good ideas for enhanced visions and enhanced insights. I also like the creation of the antidote idea. I had in mind not a "mind over body" situation, but rather just becoming immune to negative affects while benefiting from positive ones. But the antidote allows the pharmacist to also give it to another player, so thats a nice bonus. I'll see if I can edit the files.

6. And yes, a lot of this relies on DM rulings. Since its a homebrew class anyways, and what "makes sense" for poisons to do and how they can be administered will differ from DM to DM, I wasn't sure it made sense to lock in only one way of doing things. For instance, does a recipe which causes maddness and causes someone to attack their allies.. is the reverse of that that they become sane and try to heal their allies, or does it just cure them of any existing maddness? Based on the situation, it would be good for the player and DM to come to an agreement of what makes most sense.

 

[El Mahdi]

As a matter of flavor, I think Apothecary would be a better name. IMO, Pharmacist sounds too modern for the genre.

 

[garnuk]

As a matter of flavor, I think Apothecary would be a better name. IMO, Pharmacist sounds too modern for the genre.

That was the original name I gave it, and the table kept teasing our Dwarf that she was a walking pharmacy. The name itself comes from the 14th century. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=pharmacy

 

[transcendantviewer]

All fine points, but in the first bit, it lists the Censer under "Weapon Proficiencies".
Personally, I'd say to just use the ordinary crafting rules. Adjust price values somewhat, work with the DM to develop price values based upon poison and alchemical ingredients' effects, and you'll make it work. I agree that they're slow, but that preserves the feeling of "This is a bit of a big deal". You just spent a few days turning leaves and dirt into a magical elixir that actually cures ailments. Even if you're a savant, chemicals only react so quickly. Infusing magic into the process expedites this, but makes it more difficult and now requires the use of actual spells, not just patience. Magic is something that this class does not have.
I don't think there are any preexisting rules for creating items similar to magic items, which is likely intentional by the game designers. Being able to just make a poison that's virulent enough to slay a T-Rex that gets unlucky is now just time consuming. 3.5 used to say that creating anything magical, including potions, poisons, and many other alchemical items, required the crafter to expend Experience points to do so. 5e doesn't do that. So, items are highly controlled.
Those aside, I understand why DM's Discretion is necessary, but putting so much pressure on the DM is not the way to deal with things. What you should do is sit down and create a comprehensive list of just what kind of alchemical items this class could make, when, what level, at what costs, and what those items do.

 

[garnuk]

I've made a few changes, but I don't understand your concerns about item creation.
This class is specifically for item creation, and its not generic item creation rules for all classes for all items. Just the medicines needed for this class to serve its function in the world. The items should be compared more to the spells they replicate rather than other items, and compared to the spells, they take a much longer time to produce.

I appreciate your feedback.