Cure Minor Wounds 1/Minute

[Nifft]

I must disagree with that. This denies the possibility that a PC may ever invent a worthwhile magical item, and also by logical extension, any worthwhile spell.

I respectfully disagree. It denies the possibility that a PC will ever invent a more efficient magical item. Novel magical items -- ones that do something more interesting than "heal me cheap" -- are welcome. Please, bring them on!

Likewise, I would deny them any spell that can be summed up: "like this other spell, but better, and at the same or lower level". If you want to invent a spell, let it do something novel.

If you wanted to say that a PC may not easily or cheaply invent magical items that are better than the ones in the DMG, I would be in agreement with that.

Ah, cool.


BTW: back when 3.0e was the new thing, and dinosaurs roamed the earth as Beasts, I allowed a PC to discover a cheaper formula for Boccob's Blessed Book... which segued nicely into 3.5e's reduced cost for said item and for scribing in general. The world I wanted wasn't one where Wizards needed to take out a home loan to level up.

My major beef with this item is that it encourages a certain play style: fight, then hole up somewhere for a few hours, then fight again. Takes a lot of options out of the DM's hands, and rewards the players for playing like yellow-bellied chickens who convalesce after every minor scuffle. I'd prefer to NOT reward that.


Binder + Buer, Dragon Shaman + that healing aura, Wand of Vigor : These things either take a substantial commitment from a PC (and significant character resources -- 1/2 of the Binder's main class feature for the day, for example) or they have a practical cost limit. If the PCs spend the resources, I really don't mind them getting substantial benefits.

But an item like the one proposed subverts all that. It gives away too much for too little. So yeah, maybe it should cost half the GNP of a small nation. What's the price in gold for eight levels of Binder? About the same, I'd reckon.


... but from a rules point of view, I'd just say no.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Lorgrom]

I am starting to get the feeling the reason people are in such disagreement over this kind of an item stems more from gameing style, then anything else.

It seems those who think the cost is to high. Are baseing that view due to how "unuseful" it is in combat (or between combats).

While the other group (my self included) tend to view it in a more overall power level.

An item that gives you a huge advantage in combat rarely has much use in anyother area (except perhaps as a way to enourage others to go to war, etc).

While this kind of a healing item, starts to cross the line to somekind of an Arifact. Something that helps drive campaign.

Both of which are valid playing styles. So how you price such an item is completly dependent on said style of play.

Say 5,000 - 20,000 gp for the Combat focused groups. While the earlier figured price for the other kind of play.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

While the other group (my self included) tend to view it in a more overall power level.

Another issue, though, is if you price it at, ferinstance, a quarter of a million gp, who can afford it? That sounds, to me, like something that would only be in the hands of, say, a king of a rather large country.*

Now, yes, that king has the ability to, over the course of the next several thousand years, heal a ridiculously large number of hit points. The trick is that he could do this anyway.

All he needs is the services of a friendly church in his capital,** willing to lend out a handful of low-level clerics. Given the massive amounts of healing these few people can pump out (especially when augmented by royally-purchased wands or pearls of power), the measly 1HP / minute of the ring pales in comparison.

If the king wanted to spend that much money on a general-use healing device, he'd be better served with some kind of artifact alter which heals everyone loyal to the city within a certain radius.

* Or some wealthy, retired, adventuring type - who'd keep it as the interesting, but largely useless trinket it is.

** Probably secured through some sort of royal dispensation to proselytize, etc.

 

[Lorgrom]

* Or some wealthy, retired, adventuring type - who'd keep it as the interesting, but largely useless trinket it is.

Hummm sounds like most adventures I know

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hummm sounds like most adventures I know

Hey, if you can't retire and keep the vorpal sword over your mantel, then what were you adventuring for, anyway?

 

[FireLance]

While this kind of a healing item, starts to cross the line to somekind of an Arifact. Something that helps drive campaign.

Perhaps in a world without magical healing, but in a world where low-level clerics are fairly common, I doubt it would be considered anything more than a useful tool. A 1st-level cure light wounds or lesser vigor works faster, and the only advantage it has over a cleric is that it can heal more on a daily basis (until the cleric reaches fairly high levels, anyway).

Even that advantage has to work against diminishing returns. How many hit points of damage does the party expect to suffer on a daily basis? 50? 100? 500? How often will it actually matter that it can heal another hit point of damage?

An item that can activate lesser vigor on command five times per day should cost about 1,800 gp. If you really think that you will need 1,440 hp worth of healing on a daily basis, buy 26.

 

[Grog]

I am starting to get the feeling the reason people are in such disagreement over this kind of an item stems more from gameing style, then anything else.

It seems those who think the cost is to high. Are baseing that view due to how "unuseful" it is in combat (or between combats).

While the other group (my self included) tend to view it in a more overall power level.

Even in terms of "overall" power level, it's still not that great.

Say the king of a large nation had this item, and wanted to use it to heal his army after a battle. Say his army is 50,000 strong, made up of 1st level Warriors with 8 hit points each. For simplicity's sake, we'll say that half his army was damaged for half their hit points.

At a rate of 1 hit point per minute, this item could heal 15 of his soldiers per hour. With 25,000 wounded, that means it'll take 1,667 hours to heal his entire army with this item. That's over two months.

On the other hand, if his soldiers just rest, they'll all be recovered in four days.

I think the key mistake people are making here is that they're focusing on the fact that this item has unlimited usage. That's true, but the fact remains that the amount of healing this item can put out is very limited by the extremely slow rate at which it heals.

 

[gnfnrf]

It's power comes out of combat. You can go to a good sized city and do a lot to heal the injuried. This type of item would really be powerful in the hands of a hospital. Not everything is about the dungeon crawl.

Thats what I thought at first, but honestly, how many 1st level commoners take hp damage over the course of the day but aren't killed outright? It would be great for a field hospital in a major war, but I don't think a typical city would benefit.

But, I agree, the item could be world-perturbing in the hands of an NPC. So, at a minimum, it should be priced over the NPCs budget unless the NPC is high level.

I'm going to try to price it from a metagame perspective.

At any given point, it is unlikely that a game will run more than another 10 levels, given the overall typical campaign length. During those 10 levels, the PCs will face 130 on CR encounters, each of which should expend 20% of their resources. Arbirarily, half of those resources will be considered to be HP.

So, the total amount of healing a party needs over 10 levels (130 encouters) is a tenth of a HD per character per encounter. The average HP per HD across the entire party (and factoring in that high HD PCs are more likely to use HP) I will call 6.

Now, the starting level determines the total HD that the PCs will have had over the life of the formula. We'll start with 1, for a total of 55 HD per character (1+2+3...+10).

So, in 10 levels, PCs will need to heal
4 characters * 130 encounters * 6 HP/HD *0.1 fraction expended * 55 HD = 17160 HP of healing. This is 343.2 wands of cmw, for a cost of 128,700 gp. This assumes that every HP of damage the party ever suffers from 1st level on is healed by the device (or a wand of cmw). Adding levels only increases this (by adding 10 to the total HD)

This is very expensive, but it's an upper limit. First, if we reprice based on wands of lesser vigor instead, we get 23,400 gp in 31.2 wands. Also, some damage is healed in combat, and some damage is healed naturally.

The point of all of these numbers is to say that there is effectively no difference to the PCs, for PC healing, between infinite HP from this item and 31 wands of lesser vigor.

--
gnfnrf

 

[ainbimagh]

Bah do what I do, let the PCs have whatever they can create/have/want within the RAW. Since technically thats ALL they have is the RAW.

The DM is the only person who can play outside of RAW and its so.. unbelievably easy to challenge the players no matter what they have. Since you're unlimited in your potential.

The goal after all is for the PCs to have a fun and challenging time. So give them every toy they can conceive within their box and then assault their box till it is about to crack, rinse repeat and have fun!

 

[Grog]

Thats what I thought at first, but honestly, how many 1st level commoners take hp damage over the course of the day but aren't killed outright? It would be great for a field hospital in a major war,

*sigh*

It's like I'm not even here....