D&D (2024) Current Stealth Rule Actually Works As Is. If Moving Out of Cover After Hiding Makes Enemies Immediately "Finds You", Hide Would Be Totally UNUSABLE.

[Charlaquin]

No I read your paragraphs. You called me rude when I wasn't trying to be rude.

You may not have been trying to be rude, but that’s what it’s called when someone tells you they find something you said insulting and politely asks you not to say it again, and then you directly and pointedly say it to them again.

 

[Weiley31]

You may not have been trying to be rude, but that’s what it’s called when someone tells you they find something you said insulting and politely asks you not to say it again, and then you directly and pointedly say it to them again.

Having an issue with the misnaming/changing of the title of something isn't rude. There are multiple parts of the whole thing that contributes to the entire issue. And if people break down the parts to multiple sections, that's a valid critique. Especially when the mental image of "Hidden" and "Invisible" can be seen in different ways despite achieving the same goal.

 

[Charlaquin]

Having an issue with the misnaming/changing of the title of something isn't rude. There are multiple parts of the whole thing that contributes to the entire issue. And if people break down the parts to multiple sections, that's a valid critique. Especially when the mental image of "Hidden" and "Invisible" can be seen in different ways despite achieving the same goal.

But there’s a difference between “I take issue with the name of the condition” and “the name of the condition is the real problem people are having with the rules,” particularly when people have clearly and repeated expressed issue with the rules unrelated to the name of the condition. Saying you don’t like the name is not rude. Saying other people must only dislike the rule because of the name of the condition is. And saying it directly to someone who just got done asking people not to tell her that the name of the condition is her real problem with the rule, in response to that very request, is rude to her specifically.

 

[Shiroiken]

It also seems to have flown under a number of people’s radars.

This is because the surveys never addressed the change. I noticed it immediately, yet it was never in any of the playtest surveys. WotC made up their mind and wasn't going to hear input from the players about it.

 

[FrogReaver]

@Soulknife_Infiltrator

If nothing else, thanks for consolidating the relevant rules into one post. Though I wish the rules were more stand alone in the post instead of only intermixed with your interpretation.

 

[Weiley31]

Saying you don’t like the name is not rude. Saying other people must only dislike the rule because of the name of the condition is. And saying it directly to someone who just got done asking people not to tell her that the name of the condition is her real problem with the rule, in response to that very request, is rude to her specifically.

I never said that it was your real problem. WoTC isnt helping with making things clearer for the new PHB, which was supposed to be one of the major design goals for the revised version of 5E.

 

[Xeviat]

Someone said something in here that gave me an AHA! moment; rolling Stealth to hide is dumb.

You're behind a big tree in a forest and use the Hide action and no one's around; what are you rolling against? What's the flat check mean? Why can you stand behind the tree and keep rolling Hide checks until you get a nat 20?

Hide should be an action. Then, when you do something that could get you noticed, you roll Stealth against their passive perception. Moving? Make a stealth check. Taking the dash action? Make a stealth check at disadvantage. Moving from one pillar to the next in a brightly lit area with guards present? Make a stealth check at disadvantage, hoping no one looks your way while you step out from behind cover. It's the middle of a fight and you duck behind a wall and try to hide so your enemy doesn't know when you're going to pop up and shoot your crossbow? Make a stealth check when you try to attack from hiding to see if you go unnoticed.

Then, be judicious about what observers are doing. Guard is dosing or chatting with another guard? -5 on their passive Perception. Guard is standing motionless and staring in one direction like Scotland Yard? Regular Passive Perception from the front, -5 to the rear. Guard is vigilant and looking around in every direction? +5 to passive perception.

You should only make skill checks when you try to do something. Move Silently. Snipe. Sneak past an open window. Sneak up behind someone. Sure, you can practice hiding by yourself and see how quiet you can be, but it should be per action.

 

[Charlaquin]

Someone said something in here that gave me an AHA! moment; rolling Stealth to hide is dumb.

You're behind a big tree in a forest and use the Hide action and no one's around; what are you rolling against? What's the flat check mean? Why can you stand behind the tree and keep rolling Hide checks until you get a nat 20?

Hide should be an action. Then, when you do something that could get you noticed, you roll Stealth against their passive perception. Moving? Make a stealth check. Taking the dash action? Make a stealth check at disadvantage. Moving from one pillar to the next in a brightly lit area with guards present? Make a stealth check at disadvantage, hoping no one looks your way while you step out from behind cover. It's the middle of a fight and you duck behind a wall and try to hide so your enemy doesn't know when you're going to pop up and shoot your crossbow? Make a stealth check when you try to attack from hiding to see if you go unnoticed.

Then, be judicious about what observers are doing. Guard is dosing or chatting with another guard? -5 on their passive Perception. Guard is standing motionless and staring in one direction like Scotland Yard? Regular Passive Perception from the front, -5 to the rear. Guard is vigilant and looking around in every direction? +5 to passive perception.

You should only make skill checks when you try to do something. Move Silently. Snipe. Sneak past an open window. Sneak up behind someone. Sure, you can practice hiding by yourself and see how quiet you can be, but it should be per action.

This is 100% how it should work. We have general task resolution mechanics for a reason. It’s just for some reason people think stealth has to work like a “mode” you “activate” and can be “broken out of” by certain circumstances, instead of an action like any other you take to achieve a particular goal. Probably the influence of video game mechanics.

 

[Xeviat]

This is 100% how it should work. We have general task resolution mechanics for a reason. It’s just for some reason people think stealth has to work like a “mode” you “activate” and can be “broken out of” by certain circumstances, instead of an action like any other you take to achieve a particular goal. Probably the influence of video game mechanics.

Here is my quick attempt at Stealth rules:

Stealth

You can use the Stealth skill to sneak and avoid notice. Make a Dexterity (Stealth) check when you try to move or perform an action stealthily. Your Dexterity (Stealth) check is compared against the Passive Perception scores of anyone who could notice you. If your check meets or beats their score, you perform the action unnoticed; if the action is overt or noisy (like taking the Attack action or casting a spell with a Verbal component), you do not remain hidden afterwards; your DM may let you attempt a Dexterity (Stealth) check with disadvantage if circumstances allow it (such as casting a spell with verbal components quietly in loud surroundings). While you are hidden from a creature, that creature does not know what space you are in (though it may know which direction you went if you hid behind something) and you gain advantage to attack creatures you are hidden from.

Your Stealth check automatically fails if you are being directly observed. You need some kind of cover or obscurement to perform an action Stealthily; approaching quietly from behind, hiding in shadows, blending into a noisy crowd, etc. Creatures with special senses, like echo location and scent, may require alternate forms of cover or obscurement to hide from.

Not having a "Move Action" really makes it complicated. I'd probably say moving silently requires a Stealth check, and the dash action would be a Stealth check at disadvantage.

 

[Pauln6]

Someone said something in here that gave me an AHA! moment; rolling Stealth to hide is dumb.

You're behind a big tree in a forest and use the Hide action and no one's around; what are you rolling against? What's the flat check mean? Why can you stand behind the tree and keep rolling Hide checks until you get a nat 20?

Hide should be an action. Then, when you do something that could get you noticed, you roll Stealth against their passive perception. Moving? Make a stealth check. Taking the dash action? Make a stealth check at disadvantage. Moving from one pillar to the next in a brightly lit area with guards present? Make a stealth check at disadvantage, hoping no one looks your way while you step out from behind cover. It's the middle of a fight and you duck behind a wall and try to hide so your enemy doesn't know when you're going to pop up and shoot your crossbow? Make a stealth check when you try to attack from hiding to see if you go unnoticed.

Then, be judicious about what observers are doing. Guard is dosing or chatting with another guard? -5 on their passive Perception. Guard is standing motionless and staring in one direction like Scotland Yard? Regular Passive Perception from the front, -5 to the rear. Guard is vigilant and looking around in every direction? +5 to passive perception.

You should only make skill checks when you try to do something. Move Silently. Snipe. Sneak past an open window. Sneak up behind someone. Sure, you can practice hiding by yourself and see how quiet you can be, but it should be per action.

This is very sensible but I think they are trying to give a 'free' round of stealth by rolling against a static DC. What you do in that round determines whether you are still stealthed next round but the surprise factor means you have it until you don't. So you don't lose it as soon as you break cover; unless you do one of the things that break it automatically, like speak louder than a whisper.