D&D 5E Curse of Strahd (and limitations on 1st level play)

[pemerton]

The true key, IMO, is to not let the group dictate the pace of play all the time. Make them do stuff when they are way off their peak.

Yeah, this seems fairly fundamental in a game based around multi-encounter attrition.

 

[Retreater]

There seems to be some tension here: you were concerned that the PCs were not mechanically powerful enough to tackle the Winery, and so got the players to add a couple of levels; they then easily defeated the encounter at the winery, and you're unhappy that the encounter at the Winery was too easy.

Right. I was following the adventure's guidance to make the party 5th level to do the Winery. But the other thing is that the other 5th level adventure site would've likely killed a couple characters.
You just can't predict it.

 

[Cruentus]

Yeah, this seems fairly fundamental in a game based around multi-encounter attrition.

And I think this is where it bounced off me, and eventually, my players. When the players are saying "Don't use fireball, just use your cantrips. Save the fireballs for the boss later!", then the encounters aren't doing what they're designed to do. Meagre damage behind big blobs of hit points is ridiculous for monsters (which are designed to die in 3 rounds anyway), and doesn't really attrit anything from smart players.

So you have to 1) have enough encounters, and 2) make sure those encounters are strong enough to actually drain resources from players. We couldn't crack the code over 3 years of playing every week for 4 hours, and playing both homebrew and WOTC adventure paths (straight and modded). We gave up.

 

[mamba]

Because it's in the adventure that I paid $40 to run. And it's the highest reviewed adventure of the 5e era.
And I trust the designers of the system to know how to create adventures.
(They apparently don't.)

While I agree with the sentiment, the adventure knows nothing about your party size or makeup, so accounting for that is unavoidable. No matter how good the writers are.

Simply going by the standard encounter guidelines (Xanathar), the encounter was easy. 2 or 3 druids with 24 or 36 twig blights should have been a decent match for 5 players of 5th level. And that still means they should not have too much trouble winning, it should just challenge them...

The adventure also says nothing about whether the fight is intended to be easy or hard. You seem to have expected a hard fight, but given the setup it was clearly intended as easy, so this can also be simply a matter of expectation.

 

[mamba]

When you are told by the adventure that 24 twig blights are in a 30 ft. room (or whatever) they gotta fit where they fit.

The room is 20 x 100 foot, and full or obstacles (wine barrels, etc.)

 

[mamba]

Take it up with Chris Perkins.

Did he say it would be hard to deadly? The guidelines sure do not...

 

[mamba]

The group rushes in and they're a blender - nothing can stand up to them. Nothing can get in a single action.

you are using initiative, right? The chars do not get to act first unless you always let your monsters be surprised

 

[Retreater]

Did he say it would be hard to deadly? The guidelines sure do not...

It's a 5th level adventure site with (I think) three encounters. Those three should be enough to challenge a party of that level for a day's resources. I think any DM would assume that.

you are using initiative, right? The chars do not get to act first unless you always let your monsters be surprised

Yes. It's just that enemies can easily lose the Initiative. Many have only a +1 bonus. Most characters will prioritize Dexterity and beat them in the order. By then, the enemies are dead.

The room is 20 x 100 foot, and full or obstacles (wine barrels, etc.)

Looking at the map, there are 16 viable squares on the main floor to put 24 twig blights. They don't have ranged attacks so the balcony is pointless. It's unavoidable to have them in AoE clusters.

 

[mamba]

It's a 5th level adventure site with (I think) three encounters. Those three should be enough to challenge a party of that level for a day's resources. I think any DM would assume that.

did not do the math for all 3 encounters, but the one you had is 24 x 25 XP + 450 XP, so 1050 XP.

At 5th level you should have 3500 XP per char and day. So chances are you do not even have enough for one char with your three encounters. (The others were a druid with some kinds of blights too)
Heck, it would not have been enough for five 3rd level chars (but that would have made the encounters much harder)

The fact that the three encounters can all happen ‘simultaneously’ (one room each arriving one round apart), depending on the actions of the chars, also shows that this is nowhere near one adventure day

Yes. It's just that enemies can easily lose the Initiative. Many have only a +1 bonus. Most characters will prioritize Dexterity and beat them in the order. By then, the enemies are dead.

fair enough, but all of them losing every time made me ask

Looking at the map, there are 16 viable squares on the main floor to put 24 twig blights. They don't have ranged attacks so the balcony is pointless. It's unavoidable to have them in AoE clusters.

24 blights, 16 viable squares makes hitting a few unavoidable, and that is fine. I was wondering about hitting most of them with one AoE

I think the main discrepancy is that you expected the encounter to be hard when it clearly is not intended to be and the entire location to be a day’s worth of work when that clearly is also not true given the guidelines.

So either you accept this as an easy day (you already said the other location would be hard and that is why you avoided it), because that is what the guidelines say it is, or you buff it up significantly to match what you wanted from it.

I also find it a bit odd that you complain about how this was so easy for your chars when you deliberately steered them away from the hard location. You cannot really have it both ways.

I really recommend you adjust the encounters to suit your / your players needs (in either direction). It is easy enough to do and by looking at the basic math beforehand you at least get a rough idea what you are in for, even if you decide to then not change it.

 

[pemerton]

It's a 5th level adventure site with (I think) three encounters. Those three should be enough to challenge a party of that level for a day's resources. I think any DM would assume that.

Speaking purely for myself, I wouldn't make that assumption (though I'm speaking in a 4e rather than 5e context).

Looking at the map, there are 16 viable squares on the main floor to put 24 twig blights. They don't have ranged attacks so the balcony is pointless. It's unavoidable to have them in AoE clusters.

Why couldn't they go onto the balcony and hurl themselves onto the characters below? It seems like having a twigblight land on you might hurt a bit.