Cursespewing Weapon ability is badly broken... fix ?

[Rashak Mani]

I'm getting my first level in Kensai and I'm searching through a lot of weapon abilities... and I simply have to comment that the Cursespewing from the Book of Vile Darkness is very broken... p.111

+1 Cost - Curses (Will DC 15) on anyone hit or lose -4 to attacks, saves, skill and ability check (damage is unaffected)

Broken yep ? I like the idea of the weapon though... any suggestions to "unbreak" it ? Times per day ? Or when you hit the creature twice ?

 

[Doctor Bomb]

Not That Bad

Consider the Hexblade, who can do the same thing pretty much every time he goes into combat, and at higher levels increases his curse to a -6 penalty. That's going to SUX for anyone getting hit by it before/at the beginning of combat.
The Cursespewing weapon save is DC 15, so any critter normally getting hit by +2 equivalent weapons (CR 5 - 10) is probably going to save half the time, or better than 3/4 the time if it's an aberration or other high Will save creature.
I think +1 equivalent is just right for that, but if used properly (say on a dagger used by the party rogue for the pre-combat sneak attack) can be pretty potent.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea, but beyond the Curse, the Hexblade seems like a pretty crud class, with extremely poor spellcasting ... if you can replace the ability with a +1 weapon ...

What about a weapon that Turns Undead in a 60' burst every strike as a 5th level Cleric?

Or Smites Evil as a 5th level Paladin with every strike?

--fje

 

[Crothian]

The DC makes it okay in the low levels but a useless ability in the high levels.

 

[Doctor Bomb]

Yea, but beyond the Curse, the Hexblade seems like a pretty crud class, with extremely poor spellcasting ... if you can replace the ability with a +1 weapon ...

What about a weapon that Turns Undead in a 60' burst every strike as a 5th level Cleric?

Or Smites Evil as a 5th level Paladin with every strike?

--fje

Yeah, for a spellcaster. That's why in my games I lump them in with Fighters, since they get the same hit dice and attack bonuses, just trading the Infinite Feats for a little bit of "and now you are down to my level" spellcasting. With a high Dex and some decent magic items, the Hexblade can hang out on the frontlines for a bit, pick out the BBEG, hit him with a curse, then drop back and start casting spells until he runs out, then close in and cover for the fighter (who by now probably needs a little TLC, and a Cleric). They do suck in a party consisting of a Hexblade, a Rogue, a Scout, and a Favored Soul (first hand account - most of the party was mostly beaten by Kobolds and Fiendish Dire Rats until they hit 3rd level.

Those Divine Weapon abilities are sweet. I think I need to steal your ideas and write up a Relic Mace for my party to find - once the good party starts adventuring again. Already have a Weapon of Legacy Dagger in the party....

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Not at all. I'd give a lot to have that ability for my any of my fighters main weapons.

First, even at level 16-17, DC 15 will isn't "don't roll a one" for all enemies. There are still some enemies with will saves in the +9 to +12 range.

Second, if you're hitting four or five times a round, even at "don't roll a one" odds, that's still pretty good. The odds of an enemy not rolling a one in five consecutive d20 rolls is only 77.4%. If the enemy fails on a 2 as well, his odds of suriviving the round without picking up a curse are only 59%. If you get the weapon early enough that you face a foe with a mere +9 will save, that's a 42% chance of getting through the round uncursed on three hits (since you're getting it at lower level, I figure three hits is a good measure) and a 23.7% chance of remaining uncursed with five hits (for the lousy will save foe at high levels.

If you figure in a bit of finnagling to hit more foes--whirlwind attack or whirling blade in a large combat, you're almost certain to get at least one foe each round and likely to get several.

Individually, the hexblade's curse is a much more powerful ability because the DC is far higher. (I would expect a straight-class 20th level hexblade to have a DC of at least 30). However, since the cursespewing ability activates on every hit, it becomes tremendously powerful. (As will any effect that triggers a disabling condition on a hit--even if there is an easy save. Thundering is not broken because A. deafened is not really a disabling condition in terms of combat prowess and B. it only activates on critical hits which means that even in a best case scenario, you're talking one or two saves per round). If you want to depower it, I would suggest making it function on the first hit every round--possibly the first hit on any single opponent in any given round (which leaves more room for exploitiation with whirlwind attack, whirling blade, etc, but removes both tedious amounts of dice rolling for the DM and the "you're going to roll a 1 sometime this round" game which also gets old pretty quickly).

The DC makes it okay in the low levels but a useless ability in the high levels.

 

[Crothian]

Well, even high level character usually don't hit 4 or 5 times a round and lots of high level characters don't even attack 5 times a round. Abilities that work only 5-25% of the time are just not as useful. Sure, it can be a useful ability in the right campaign and with the right character I imagine, but I don't see a lot of use there. Giving negatives to a creature you are going to kill in a round or two anyway is not that useful when you can get an enchantment for the weapon that helps you kill it faster.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't know about that. IME, if a high level (16+) fighter type moderates his power attack usage, he'll hit anything that isn't bulletproof (AC 30 is "watch your power attack levels; AC 36+ can be tough; AC 40+ is tough to hit) at least three times a round--usually four.

The more significant factor is whether or not you are going to kill the creature anyway. The really beefy monsters (advanced mountain trolls, hyperbuffed dragons, giants with class levels, etc) can often take 2-3 rounds of punishment from one damage maximizing character--more from a defensively optimized character. So the question is whether the benefits of giving the creature the penalties (not entirely defensive since the save penalty can come in very handy for party members dropping spells on it and the ability check penalty would be advantageous to a trip fighter) are worth the 3 points of damage per hit or so that you would otherwise get with a +1 weapon upgrade. I would say that, at least sometimes, it would be a good deal though you may be correct that it's not as good as I first thought.

Well, even high level character usually don't hit 4 or 5 times a round and lots of high level characters don't even attack 5 times a round. Abilities that work only 5-25% of the time are just not as useful. Sure, it can be a useful ability in the right campaign and with the right character I imagine, but I don't see a lot of use there. Giving negatives to a creature you are going to kill in a round or two anyway is not that useful when you can get an enchantment for the weapon that helps you kill it faster.

 

[Particle_Man]

Re Hexblade: Any foe that saves vs. the curse (of which the highest pre-epic number is 5/day) is immune for 24 hours to any other hexblade curses.

 

[TheGogmagog]

The problem I have with it is that it's about the same as a spell storing sword (depending on interpretation on what the DC of the stored spell is deterimined) with the HUGE advantage that it's usable every hit, instead of once, until recharged.

Sure the spell storing weapon has more 'flexability' but there are really only 3 or 4 spells worth storing in it.

As a DM, I'd be tempted to limit it's use to 3 or 5 times a day, determined by the wielder just like the spell storing sword. As a player It would definitely be worth trying to find out how effective it is.