Custom Spell: Celestial Coalescence
- Thread starter Velenne
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Velenne
Explorer
This character's concept has developed into a striving to become similar to his celestial matron (a form of a Valiance, as near as I can tell), which is exemplified in his spell selection (spells like tongues, teleport and (later) globe of invulnerability and of course the celestial summonings possessed by arcane angels). Ultimately, far in the future, it would be a dream for him to ascend into an arcane angel (perhaps after he dies or perhaps sooner).
In the meantime, I'm looking for a way for him to magically manifest that connection apart from his extra summonings and this seemed a great way to do it. Any other ideas are more than welcome.
In the meantime, I'm looking for a way for him to magically manifest that connection apart from his extra summonings and this seemed a great way to do it. Any other ideas are more than welcome.
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J: are you sure that teleport w/o error is Su, rather than Sp? Seems like it should be the latter to me.
Assuming it's the latter, the spell should be doable. I would reduce the casting time to 1 full round, and reduce the duration to 1 rd/level. I'd also slap on an XP cost (500 XP?). This means the spell could be used when you're facing the major bad guy, but you're not going to use it for every fight.
Assuming it's the latter, the spell should be doable. I would reduce the casting time to 1 full round, and reduce the duration to 1 rd/level. I'd also slap on an XP cost (500 XP?). This means the spell could be used when you're facing the major bad guy, but you're not going to use it for every fight.
Yaaaa!
I agree with Jeremy. In comparison, Fiendform is definately less powerful. Is the quasit the only form you can take? Or is it the most powerful form?
XP cost should be mandatory. I've never seen an XP cost that you could possibly get out of by making a Will save. Were that the case, my wizard would never take XP hits because Will just happens to be my best saving throw.
And my recent hit of 1000 XP for casting a Permanent Darkvision on myself would be negated. Yay! Free Darkvision!
Suggestions? If you seriously want to use the valiance, make it a higher level spell, say 8 or 9. It's a CR 10 creature. 10! That combined with the ability to cast your Sorcerer spells (I'm assuming that once you are in this form you can cast your other class spells as normal) is monumentous power at a relatively low level. Minimum level to cast 6th level spells is, what, 10? (I don't have my PHB :/) So you would then become a 10th level sorcerer and a 10th 'level' celestial. Yikes!
Also, the penalty needs to be increased significantly. I'm not exactly sure the detrimental effects of Fatigue, but I'm willing to bet that it hardly effects spell casters. Up the Fort DC to 15 like Cheiro suggested, and perhaps make the failed save render you immediately unconscious from tapping so much power? That way its power weighs as much as its danger. If you intend to use the form for battle, it is generally accepted as a bad idea to be unconscious throughout its duration.
10 minutes/level is kinda long. Does polymorph self last that long? What level is poly self? I think, if it's higher level than 6th, that this spell's duration be reduced to 1 minute/level and the casting time be reduced to 1 full round. If this spell is higher than poly self, then the duration might be justified.
Just a few suggestions...looks pretty cool. Mellan would definately love this spell.
I agree with Jeremy. In comparison, Fiendform is definately less powerful. Is the quasit the only form you can take? Or is it the most powerful form?
XP cost should be mandatory. I've never seen an XP cost that you could possibly get out of by making a Will save. Were that the case, my wizard would never take XP hits because Will just happens to be my best saving throw.
And my recent hit of 1000 XP for casting a Permanent Darkvision on myself would be negated. Yay! Free Darkvision!Suggestions? If you seriously want to use the valiance, make it a higher level spell, say 8 or 9. It's a CR 10 creature. 10! That combined with the ability to cast your Sorcerer spells (I'm assuming that once you are in this form you can cast your other class spells as normal) is monumentous power at a relatively low level. Minimum level to cast 6th level spells is, what, 10? (I don't have my PHB :/) So you would then become a 10th level sorcerer and a 10th 'level' celestial. Yikes!
Also, the penalty needs to be increased significantly. I'm not exactly sure the detrimental effects of Fatigue, but I'm willing to bet that it hardly effects spell casters. Up the Fort DC to 15 like Cheiro suggested, and perhaps make the failed save render you immediately unconscious from tapping so much power? That way its power weighs as much as its danger. If you intend to use the form for battle, it is generally accepted as a bad idea to be unconscious throughout its duration.
10 minutes/level is kinda long. Does polymorph self last that long? What level is poly self? I think, if it's higher level than 6th, that this spell's duration be reduced to 1 minute/level and the casting time be reduced to 1 full round. If this spell is higher than poly self, then the duration might be justified.
Just a few suggestions...looks pretty cool. Mellan would definately love this spell.
Velenne
Explorer
A large part of that CR is the fact that they have some very, very beefy spell-like abilities (like Holy Word at will), as well as a free level of sorceror per HD (average ones listed have 6 HD, so there's +6 CR right there).
I'm leaning toward the XP cost right now, but that's very tough topic to tackle. Spells I found with XP costs: Atonement (500), Awaken (250), Commune (100), Greater Restoration (500), Limited Wish (300), Miracle (5,000), Permenancy (500/spell lvl), Simulacrum (1,000), Vision (100), and Wish (5,000).
There's so many revisions of the Polymorph spells; I'm 85% sure the last revision was 4th level, 1 hour/level, allowed only one change, had a 1 action casting time, and allowed any form down to dimunitive and up to a creature who's HD did not exceed your caster level (Fire Giant was a common choice for high level casters, which also allowed you to cast spells because he's got a humanoid mouth and hands. Valiance would be another good choice actually (good stats and fly speed))
Well...
That still leaves it at a 10 CR creature, despite XP penalties. I still think that if you are instistant on using this celestial and no other, that you increase the spell's level. This spell is no comparison to Fiendform...If I were a diabolist and had a choice between casting Fiendform and this spell...No doubt I would pick this spell and not even consider fiendform. Plus, it's a double whammy...a diabolist assumes the powers of a valiance and uses them to employ evil and chaos. A big F you to the celestials. Of course, that's a problem anyway and I'm not saying that a higher level will fix it, but that is another issue altogether.
CR 10...To keep it level 6 you might start hacking off some of the powers of the valiance. You don't get the teleport without error at will, you don't get the immunities, you don't get the aura...so forth. But it would be pointless in the end because you will end up with something totally different than a valiance, so that's why I keep suggesting a new, less powerful creature. The quasit is a CR 3... find a celestial with a similar CR. *shrug*
What about my other suggestions that I spent 10 minutes writing up, at work, no less?
That still leaves it at a 10 CR creature, despite XP penalties. I still think that if you are instistant on using this celestial and no other, that you increase the spell's level. This spell is no comparison to Fiendform...If I were a diabolist and had a choice between casting Fiendform and this spell...No doubt I would pick this spell and not even consider fiendform. Plus, it's a double whammy...a diabolist assumes the powers of a valiance and uses them to employ evil and chaos. A big F you to the celestials. Of course, that's a problem anyway and I'm not saying that a higher level will fix it, but that is another issue altogether.
CR 10...To keep it level 6 you might start hacking off some of the powers of the valiance. You don't get the teleport without error at will, you don't get the immunities, you don't get the aura...so forth. But it would be pointless in the end because you will end up with something totally different than a valiance, so that's why I keep suggesting a new, less powerful creature. The quasit is a CR 3... find a celestial with a similar CR. *shrug*
What about my other suggestions that I spent 10 minutes writing up, at work, no less?
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Jeremy
Explorer
Quasit is not the only form allowed, but it is the most powerful. Fiendform allows you to shapechange into the two weakest fiends of each type. Lemure/Imp, or Dretch/Quasit. So you can be a little winged guy, or one of the litte guys that makes up the 3000+ groups of little demon halflings with mouths. 
But fiendform gives you full access to all their abilities, though I wouldn't want to commune with a demon if I were a quasit, and the celestial equivalent doesn't.
But getting 12 defensive spells out of one, most of them the same level of the spell or higher than the spell giving them is wrong in the biggest way. Especially since all of them are either at will or effective without duration limit (so the entire time you have the spell on).
Spells that allow you to cast other spells almost universally allow for the casting of a selection of spells up to the level below the spell.
As long as the energy immunities, teleport without errors, and 2x Widened spells are in there (that's not counting the fact that the circle vs evil is double strength, what does a +4 deflection bonus go for when it is for everyone in a 20' radius? what does it go for when it adds a resistance bonus of +4 to saves too?), I don't see how the spell can be balanced.
I'd be more likely to like the spell if it gave the spell like abilities (except for Holy Word at will, even Trumpet Archons don't have that!) but not the supernatural ones and extraordinary abilities .
But fiendform gives you full access to all their abilities, though I wouldn't want to commune with a demon if I were a quasit, and the celestial equivalent doesn't.
But getting 12 defensive spells out of one, most of them the same level of the spell or higher than the spell giving them is wrong in the biggest way. Especially since all of them are either at will or effective without duration limit (so the entire time you have the spell on).
Spells that allow you to cast other spells almost universally allow for the casting of a selection of spells up to the level below the spell.
As long as the energy immunities, teleport without errors, and 2x Widened spells are in there (that's not counting the fact that the circle vs evil is double strength, what does a +4 deflection bonus go for when it is for everyone in a 20' radius? what does it go for when it adds a resistance bonus of +4 to saves too?), I don't see how the spell can be balanced.
I'd be more likely to like the spell if it gave the spell like abilities (except for Holy Word at will, even Trumpet Archons don't have that!) but not the supernatural ones and extraordinary abilities .
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