(Cydra Rogues' Gallery-My Players STAY OUT)

[the Jester]

informed by 4e design philosophy

An interesting thing...

I was just working on converting the stats for Kale Curi (no, you don't know who he is yet) from 1e to 3e, and reforming him into a villain... and I was struck by a peculiar impulse, no doubt fueled by what we know of 4e design philosophy:

Don't sweat the stuff that won't come up in play. Wing it. Play looser with the rules.

Kale is a 20th-level wizard/15th-level entropic legionnaire (no, you don't know what this is yet, either), but I can't see myself figuring out what 4th level spells he is packing. They just aren't likely to come up. I'm more inclined to wing it with a 'whatever low-level spells he needs' approach. Likewise, for his skill points, I know his starting int, and the int he has by 35th level, but I am not going to figure out what it was at each level so I can correctly allocate his skill points. Instead, I'm figuring his skills based on his starting int and then arbitrarily adding a bunch of skill points in. It'll all come out in the wash.

Am I getting sloppy, or am I acknowledging the wisdom of the 4e design principles?

Spending the time to really bear down and do Kale Curi by the book would take me, prolly, 3 hours. "Loose" (sloppy?) design makes it closer to a 2 hour process. A notable savings in time and effort... but... I ask you, the peanut gallery- is this too sloppy?

 

[Quartz]

Likewise, for his skill points, I know his starting int, and the int he has by 35th level, but I am not going to figure out what it was at each level so I can correctly allocate his skill points. Instead, I'm figuring his skills based on his starting int and then arbitrarily adding a bunch of skill points in. It'll all come out in the wash.

Perhaps it might be better to take the average and assume regular advancement? Say he starts at Int 16 (+3) and ends at Int 32 (+11), you'd just assume a bonus of +7 so at 35th level he'd have 7x35=245 extra skill points.

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

*shrug* even pre-4E skills were something I've always played hard and fast with. Typically it's just "Skills: Diplomacy +28, Perform (Oratory) +30, Otherwise 15 + Modifier" or somesuch, the Diplomacy/Perform being there if the character has special bonuses. Then from there, use DM judgement whether they have that skill or not, or if you should subtract 5 or 10 from the total if its cross-class or somesuch.

Lower level spells I've never had a hard time to pick, just go with the theme of the person, if you want to wing it, that's fine too. That said, I do like the fact that humanoid NPCs could be someone a character could eventually aspire to and that in 3.0/3.5e you generally have a progression for how they got there.

 

[the Jester]

Perhaps it might be better to take the average and assume regular advancement? Say he starts at Int 16 (+3) and ends at Int 32 (+11), you'd just assume a bonus of +7 so at 35th level he'd have 7x35=245 extra skill points.

Yeah, but massive increases at the end of his career (to date) would skew the average pretty hard, I think.

 

[the Jester]

Just to whet your appetites for Beyond Bile Mountain, here are the stats for the "spider devourers"- epic spider eaters. For the record, they are outside the mountain- but then, when the pcs return to the area to check up on things, they are going to have a few shocks waiting for them.

Y'see, the King of Bile has ended his long period of idleness at last.



SPIDER DEVOURERS--- CR 27
Advanced foul paragon spider eaters
NE huge aberrations
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60’, detect life, low-light vision, scent; Listen +, Spot +
Aura sickness 20’ (DC 57)
Languages Understands Aquan, Dwarven, Elven, Forinthian, Giant, Peshan

AC 57 (-2 size, +9 dex, +15 natural, +12 luck, +12 insight, +1 dodge), touch 42, flat-footed 37; Mobility
Hit Dice 12d10 +336 +144 (546 hp); DR 10/epic
Fast Healing 20; Regeneration 30 (good)
Resist cold 10, fire 10; SR 49
Immune charm, disease, paralyzation, stench; freedom of movement
Fort +48, Ref +27, Will +27

Speed 90 ft. (18 squares), fly 180 ft. (36 squares) (good)
Melee sting +56 (2d6+41 plus disease plus poison) and bite +51 (3d6+30 plus disease)
Base Atk +12; Grp +66
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Atk Options disruptive smite 3/day, epic strike, poison (DC 60, initial damage none, secondary damage paralysis for 1d8+5 weeks; inflicts disease as well), Spring Attack
Special Actions implant
Spell-like Abilities (CL 15): 3/day- greater dispel magic, haste, see invisibility.

Str 53, Dex 28, Con 66, Int 23, Wis 37, Cha 25
Feats Alertness, Dodge, Great Fortitude (B), Improved Initiative, Mobility, Power Attack (B), Spring Attack
Skills Listen +24, Spot +25 (+10 competence bonus to all skill checks, included in listed skills)

Sickening Aura (Su): A foul creature gives off an aura in a 20’ radius that requires all creatures not immune to disease to make Fort saves, DC 57, to avoid being sickened as long as they are in the radius. A creature that makes its save is immune to that foul creature’s aura for 24 hours. Note that creatures affected by the aura are subject to disease.

Disease (Ex): Any creature struck by a spider devourer’s natural attacks or affected by any of its special attack forms is infected by a terrible supernatural form of cackle fever (Fort DC 60; incubation instantaneous; damage 1d6 wisdom). If the character’s wisdom reaches 0 through the effects of this disease, the victim dies and rises the next night at midnight as a wraith.

Disruptive Smite (Su): 3/day a foul creature can declare a disruptive smite before rolling to hit. This attack gains a bonus on attack rolls equal to the foul creature’s cha bonus and a bonus to damage equal to the foul creature’s hit dice. This extra damage is vile damage. Naturally, this also inflicts the foul creature’s victim with disease.

 

[Knightfall]

SPIDER DEVOURERS--- CR 27
Advanced foul paragon spider eaters
NE huge aberrations

Scary. Nasty. Excellent!

BTW, you missed something in you stat block. It's not a big thing since it's listed under skills, but I figured I'd point it out anyway. (I've done this myself.)

Init +13; Senses darkvision 60’, detect life, low-light vision, scent; Listen +, Spot +

Also, is "foul" a template?

 

[the Jester]

BTW, you missed something in you stat block. It's not a big thing since it's listed under skills, but I figured I'd point it out anyway. (I've done this myself.)


Also, is "foul" a template?

Whoops, good catch!

Yes, "foul creature" is a template- it actually first popped up during Revenge on Bile Mountain, but iirc the pcs wiped out the things they fought that had the template before they could do anything.

 

[Knightfall]

Whoops, good catch!

Yes, "foul creature" is a template- it actually first popped up during Revenge on Bile Mountain, but iirc the pcs wiped out the things they fought that had the template before they could do anything.

Is it a template you created? (And if so, then can you post it here or send it to me by e-mail?) Or is it from a book?

 

[the Jester]

Is it a template you created? (And if so, then can you post it here or send it to me by e-mail?) Or is it from a book?

It's homebrewed. I actually thought I'd already posted it in this thread, somewhere, but since I haven't... here you go!

One thing about it, as with several of my other templates: I have long been enamored of the idea of templates that significantly boost the powers of the creature that it's applied to. My quest for legitimate CR +4 or higher templates is a hard one; most templates might bump the base creature in a lot of ways, but rarely does it give the creature enough staying power.

I tried my best. Tell me whatcha think!

FOUL CREATURE
A foul creature has been tainted by a terrible process of magical transmutation, necromancy and torment. Though hideous and pathetic, foul creatures are utterly evil and beyond redemption. To destroy a foul creature is a mercy.

Creating a Foul Creature: “Foul creature” is a template that can be applied to any living creature (hereafter referred to as the base creature). Modify the base creature as indicated below.

Size and Type: Unless the creature is a construct, elemental or outsider, change its type to aberration. Do not refigure the base creature’s base attack or saves.

Armor Class: Increase the base creature’s natural armor by +7.

Attacks: A foul creature gains a bite attack doing average damage for a creature of its size (see the Book of Templates for specifics) if it did not already have a bite attack. If it already has a bite attack, increase its damage by one die type. All of its natural attacks gain the disease special attack.

Special Attacks: A foul creature gains the following special attacks:

Disease (Ex): Any creature struck by a foul creature’s natural attacks or affected by any of its special attack forms is infected by a terrible supernatural form of cackle fever (Fort DC 10 + ½ foul creature’s hit dice + con bonus; incubation instantaneous; damage 1d6 wisdom). If the character’s wisdom reaches 0 through the effects of this disease, the victim dies and rises the next night at midnight as a wraith.

Disruptive Smite (Su): 3/day a foul creature can declare a disruptive smite before rolling to hit. This attack gains a bonus on attack rolls equal to the foul creature’s cha bonus and a bonus to damage equal to the foul creature’s hit dice. This extra damage is vile damage. Naturally, this also inflicts the foul creature’s victim with disease.

Sickening Aura (Su): A foul creature gives off an aura in a 20’ radius that requires all creatures not immune to disease to make Fort saves, DC 10 + ½ hit dice + con modifier, to avoid being sickened as long as they are in the radius. A creature that makes its save is immune to that foul creature’s aura for 24 hours. Note that creatures affected by the aura are subject to disease.

Special Qualities: Foul creatures gain the following special qualities:

Detect Life (Ex): A foul creature can tell whether a creature is alive at a glance, foiling all known methods of hiding life (including mind blank).

Immunities (Ex): A foul creature is immune to charm effects, disease, paralyzation, poison and stench-based attacks.

Regeneration (Su): A foul creature gains regeneration equal to its adjusted CR, rounded up to the nearest multiple of five. It cannot regenerate damage from Good sources.

Abilities: Modify the base creature’s ability scores as follows: Str +10, Con +16, Int -4 (to a minimum of 1) (mindless creatures remain mindless).

Skills: The foul creature retains all of the base creature’s skill ranks, despite its lowered intelligence.

Feats: The foul creature gains Great Fortitude as a bonus feat.

Challenge Rating: A foul creature’s challenge rating is equal to the base creature’s CR +4.

Alignment: A foul creature’s moral alignment is always evil.

SAMPLE FOUL CREATURE

FOUL ADVANCED AMPHISBAENA (Tome of Horrors pg. 7)--- CR 12
NE huge aberration
Init +5; Senses all-around vision, detect life, scent; Listen +8, Spot +5
Aura sickening 20’

AC 25, touch 9, flat-footed 24
Hit Dice 18d10+216 (315 hp); Resist cold 30
Immune charm effects, disease, paralyzation, poison, stench
Fort +25, Ref +12, Will +7

Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Melee* 2 bites +24 (1d8+17/19-20 plus poison plus disease)
Base Atk +18; Grp +38
*includes 5-point Power Attack.

Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Atk Options Power Attack

Str 34, Dex 13, Con 34, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
SQ split
Feats Ability Focus (poison), Deadly Poison, Great Fortitude (B), Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Virulent Poison, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Balance +12, Hide +1, Listen +8, Move Silently +9, Search -2, Spot +5

Disease (Ex): Cackle fever variant; Fort DC 31; instantaneous; 1d6 wis.

Disruptive Smite (Su): 3/day one of these foul creatures can declare a disruptive smite before rolling to hit. This attack gains a +18 bonus to damage. This extra damage is vile damage. Naturally, this also inflicts the foul creature’s victim with disease.

Poison (Ex): Bite, DC 35, initial damage 1d6 con, secondary damage 4d6 con.

Sickening Aura (Su): A foul creature gives off an aura in a 20’ radius that requires all creatures not immune to disease to make Fort saves, DC 31, to avoid being sickened as long as they are in the radius. A creature that makes its save is immune to that foul creature’s aura for 24 hours. Note that creatures affected by the aura are subject to disease.

 

[the Jester]

Advancing Undead

Here's an interesting observation about one of the flaws of the 3e system of advancing monsters re: Challenge Rating.

I was statting up some deathbringers (MM2) with fighter levels for the epic game, and I figured that fighter was definitely an associated class for deathbringers (thus, 1 level = CR +1). But with the lack of a con score, I ended up with CR 27 monsters with a glass jaw- they only have 250 hp! (I know that "only" 250 hp is a ridiculous thing to say, but we are talking about epic pcs here. Believe me, 250 hp is an easy one round kill for the party.)

Now, my normal fix for low-hp undead is to slap that brilliant ability called Unholy Toughness on them, jack the CR up by 1 and call it a day. But deathbringers only have a Charisma score of 7! Whoops, even if I push that up with their every four level stat bump, it won't be all that high.

Just making an observation. I may do an ad hoc CR reduction of 1-2 points on 'em, I dunno.