D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[mamba]

I think D&D is a decent game that won't be better because WotC cares more about name recognition than making it better in any significant way.

I think the problem is who defines what better is, I might not like it more than the 2014 version, you might like it less, but others might like it more, presumably figuring that out was the point of the playtest (although I have my issues with how that is conducted...)

 

[Mistwell]

A new generation of kids are going to buy 2024 D&D and have ONLY that as their play material.

trash like 2024 Twisters making tons of money

World of Warcraft was a mediocre, problematic MMORPG that continued to get worse over time, but its popularity caused investors to try and copy it, and the entire concept of what the genre was supposed to be fell by the wayside.

And there is exactly the problem. A company like McDonalds is literally killing the planet (tldr; research the environmental impacts) and the health of society as a whole. Yet, like smoking before it, the majority of the populace regards it as "a tasty treat and nothing wrong with consuming it regularly"

Boy you do a whole lot of substituting your opinion for claims of fact.

Oh and telling people to research McDonalds to inform themselves about how it's not good for you. That was the kicker. The utter disdain you have for your audience, not even realizing it.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I'm pretty sure posts like this have always been made about anything popular ever.

"The Beatles don't deserve to succeed!"

"Lord Byron doesn't deserve to succeed..."

"Cave paintings don't deserve to succeed... You should all be stacking rocks instead, that's the real art!"

Things are always going to be popular, usually because they match an audience's desires or are built upon a history of popularity. Railing against pop art can definitely scratch an itch and make you feel like you're the one with taste compared to all these sheep... But at the same time, the Beatles make pretty good music! And it's possible to like the obscure band Superorganism without trashing the Fab Four.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Boy you do a whole lot of substituting your opinion for claims of fact.

Oh and telling people to research McDonalds to inform themselves about how it's not good for you. That was the kicker. The utter disdain you have for your audience, not even realizing it.

It’s ok. I don’t mind him telling me that. It IS bad for me. But… so was my ex-wife. Ha! And I kept going back to both for YEARS.

Mmmmm… sinful decadence.

 

[Remathilis]

And there is exactly the problem. A company like McDonalds is literally killing the planet (tldr; research the environmental impacts) and the health of society as a whole. Yet, like smoking before it, the majority of the populace regards it as "a tasty treat and nothing wrong with consuming it regularly". It's much worse than being a non-health-food. The way cows are raised these days literally causes diseases, not mention all the additives and processed crap involved in McDonalds that is seriously detrimental to people, but has simply being normalized by the toxic modern food system.

I am reminded of a certain car manufacturer who not so long ago sold it's electric cars on the notion that buying them was good for the planet, the economy, and humanity in general. They pushed the narrative that their cars were hyper-futuristic, would only appreciate in value, and were going to be capable of tremendous feats including self-driving. In the end, their cars were no better for the environment than gas powered vehicles in the long run, had a multitude of problems and broken promises, and was run by a CEO who was a megalomaniac and was willing to kiss up to the oil and gas industry he threatened to disrupt.

And I can't help but feel deja vu while reading your discussion regarding this Kickstarter.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

They've played RPG's their entire life and have a strong understanding of mechanics. Game design has a lot of overlap.

This is a vast over simplification of game design. Game design is more about player perception and expectations than the mathematics of underlying systems.

We can see this in an example. Josh Sawyer, a lead designer for Obsidian Entertainment, spoke at a convention, its on youtube, about an instance of this. Where he talks about how a player base found a gun, in one of their games, as under-powered. In a following patch, Obsidian changed only the sound effect. After that single change to the sound, players thought the gun was much better. It was not, it was the same. The perception of the sound, made the players think the math was off.

We could see evidence of this in the playtesting for 2024's rule revision, as well. Where on multiple issues, notably with Paladin and Druid, player's voted heavily in favor of "cool" and away from a mechanical balance. Such things as the limitation of druid wild shape options to three generic statblocks was objectively more balanced, but wildly unpopular. Player perception was misaligned with WotC's mechanical goals here.

We can dwell into perception from other angles, like how game developers largely avoid nerfs because buffs are better received. Why video games like X-com "fudge" the math, because player perception of random isn't random. Or how players react to different ways of increasing difficulty.

Experiencing mechanics provides little outside of perspective. And when your understanding of mechanics is solely with one game, even that benefit wanes into irrelevance.

 

[Maxperson]

While looking through the Kickstarter page, I kept thinking "Awww, this looks adorable." Then I saw the line "Penguin-born Ancestry". Could not close the tab fast enough.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Game is getting started a bit late so I

No you can't mix and match.

But… but you can. I’ve pulled things into 5e from all the way back to 1e. It’s entirely possible. The games are just not that different.

Apparently, you won’t.

But that’s not the same as CAN’T.

You have to go by what the DM/group is running/playing.

That is true of ANY RPG… including DC20. If my group wants to play… uhm… FATE (which I don’t like), I can either play FATE or not play.

So… what’s your point?

 

[Doc_Klueless]

You know. As amusing as this thread is, he has managed to get DC20 into at least a few people’s eye line. Might have even found a couple of converts. So it’s possibly not a complete loss.

Is this another example of “any publicity is good publicity”?

 

[Retreater]

They've played RPG's their entire life and have a strong understanding of mechanics. Game design has a lot of overlap.

Wait. Are we talking about Dungeon Coach?
If that's the case, by his own admission he started playing D&D about 5 years ago ("just before the pandemic.")
But I'm not going to begrudge a new RPG fan for trying to design their own game. But what IS inexcusable is being completely unread in game design and not knowing other major players in the RPG sphere.
Like, to the extent of not knowing about other forms of action economy or initiative. He's taking credit for inventing stuff that's been in the gaming zeitgeist for over a decade.