D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

Boy you do a whole lot of substituting your opinion for claims of fact.

Oh and telling people to research McDonalds to inform themselves about how it's not good for you. That was the kicker. The utter disdain you have for your audience, not even realizing it.
I'm an old man.

The vibe I've read off of the original post, and follow-ups, really makes me think of a college freshman who just discovered communism and 'The best way is if we're all a collective and we all are equals and share' and if only us fellow proles knew what we were doing.

You know - the kind who are stringently and angrily anti-GMO, but really not picky where they score their acid. (showing my age)
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I'm an old man.

The vibe I've read off of the original post, and follow-ups, really makes me think of a college freshman who just discovered communism and 'The best way is if we're all a collective and we all are equals and share' and if only us fellow proles knew what we were doing.

You know - the kind who are stringently and angrily anti-GMO, but really not picky where they score their acid. (showing my age)
I have to admit, I too knew everything at age 20, and thought older people just didn't know anything and could not comprehend my deeper understanding.
 

Zuranthium

Casting your favorite spell
Spell slots forces you to use a variety of spell.
Spell slots, unless you MUST specifically prepare every spellslot (which no longer exists in D&D), absolutely does not force more variety compared to mana. You can do the same spell over and over with spellslots, using higher level slots to upcast it. DC20's "upcast" system is far more sophisticated than D&D's, and using mana as the system plays into facilitating a wider amount of variety, since there's more possibility of changing your spells depending on how much mana you want to spend.

IME, that just leads to spamming the same thing over and over.

Action variety forces you to use a variety of actions.
Wrong. DC20 has penalties for trying to do certain things over and over, and the flexibility of the action economy already promotes more variety on its own. D&D does not encourage variety. It encourages building around cheesing your bonus action as much as you can.

I'd say its popularity shows that it cannot be that mediocre, or everything it beat was predominantly bad....

LOL!!! That is not how the world works. Mediocre products "beat" superior ones all the time because of visibility and conditioning.

they played for fewer years than many here, and a single game at that
They've played many, and the mechanics being formulated shows great expertise and more consideration than an average player. Trying to measure art or the quality of a product based on age or resume is a mistake in the first place.

If my group wants to play… uhm… FATE (which I don’t like), I can either play FATE or not play.

Yeah you can choose to not play...which means you are no longer getting to participate. People only get to play what is available to them. When D&D is the driving force of the genre, that's what millions of people have to do if they want to engage. Hence, if the masses buy D&D 2024 and nothing else, if that's all they even know about, then everything will be centered around it.

A singular dominant force in a market can be good it's an objectively great, benevolent product. Like if some pill existed that cured a variety of ills with no side effects, with an ethical production method. But this is frequently not the case.

Which is to say - do not buy D&D 2024. It is not the ambassador the genre deserves. Limit its spread as much as possible. Uplift non-D&D options. The end goal: a favorable evolution of the genre as a whole, resulting in better games and more players.

Uhm… No. The exact problem is people who DON’T consume it as a “tasty treat” and, instead, “consume it regularly.” A treat is not something that is consumed regularly.

Any consumption of an unnecessary toxic product, like modern raised cow meat, is detrimental to humanity. It fuels the demand for production, which causes negative environmental effects, and there are immediate negative health effects. Modern processed food is engineered to be addictive and sits in your intestines for prolonged periods, and a single McD's quality hamburger carries the risk of disease. Things like McDonalds, thanks to ease of mass production and access, are able to price and locate themselves favorably compared to other options; they literally force other options out of the market. Their marketing also warps minds, continuing to place them in a seat of dominance, which they can use to literally impact the laws of the country regarding food production.

Comparing to electricity is a fallacy. That's a necessity to modern life and something that benefits humanity as a whole (assuming the world doesn't nuke itself). There are of course cleaner and more sustainable ways to generate electricity, which is a separate issue.
 

DinoInDisguise

A russian spy disguised as a t-rex.
A singular dominant force in a market can be good it's an objectively great, benevolent product. Like if some pill existed that cured a variety of ills with no side effects, with an ethical production method. But this is frequently not the case.

Which is to say - do not buy D&D 2024. It is not the ambassador the genre deserves. Limit its spread as much as possible. Uplift non-D&D options. The end goal: a favorable evolution of the genre as a whole, resulting in better games and more players.

If I know anything about D&D players, they are intelligent, free thinkers and don't like to be told what to do. I don't know if you'll get the response you want.
 
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Remathilis

Legend
I'm an old man.

The vibe I've read off of the original post, and follow-ups, really makes me think of a college freshman who just discovered communism and 'The best way is if we're all a collective and we all are equals and share' and if only us fellow proles knew what we were doing.

You know - the kind who are stringently and angrily anti-GMO, but really not picky where they score their acid. (showing my age)
I think my comparison to fans of a certain electric car company works well too.
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I generally feel that if the best thing you can say about a game is that it's not another game you've lost the marketing battle already. If your pitch is simply trashing another game, you've probably turned off a large potential swathe of your audience.

Talk about what's good about the game you like. Nobody is going to have a sudden 'epiphany' after 10 years and convert when you're simply trashing something else. This is the exact opposite of good advertising--it's turning people off.

This is a classic lesson in how to 'unsell' a product. I hope you don't have any involvement with DC20 because you've done them a disservice here.
 

I think this proves my point.

This HAS to be trolling. First, understanding capitalism means there are very few objectively great benevolent products. The only that comes to mind is when Volvo developed automobile seat belts, and CHOSE not to patent them for our benefits. What happens, even now? A certain (high?) population choses not to wear seat belts, no matter the objective value.

Secondly, a business needs to grow. If the DC20 system is so benevolent and Good, why aren't they distributing it for free? They're chosing to grow a business and... PROFIT.

Thirdly, and I feel a decent enough majority of users of ENWorld might agree, to throw all this manure at D&D and say that they're actively holding down development and the genre etc is a SPIT IN THE FACE of other game designers who, while they didn't make WotC money, were able to produce games they loved and believed in. WITHOUT modifying these supposed-malignant system (D&D 5e) - games like Ars Magica, GURPS, Amber Diceless, Legend of the Five Rings, Deadlands/Savage Worlds, Palladium/Rifts, Feng Shui, Night's Black Agent and any number of countless games put to market on the strength of their creators' unique vision.

I've hung out and talked to various developers, and I cannot think of a SINGLE one who endorses the kind of vitriol

Zuranthium is.​

I think their general sentiment is that yes, growing the hobby is important, yes they want you to play their game, but a high tide raises all boats. They would rather people play what they choose to rather than new people be put off the hobby by zealotry.

Quoted: "
A singular dominant force in a market can be good it's an objectively great, benevolent product. Like if some pill existed that cured a variety of ills with no side effects, with an ethical production method. But this is frequently not the case.

Which is to say - do not buy D&D 2024. It is not the ambassador the genre deserves. Limit its spread as much as possible. Uplift non-D&D options. The end goal: a favorable evolution of the genre as a whole, resulting in better games and more players."
 



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