D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[mellored]

Spell slots, unless you MUST specifically prepare every spellslot (which no longer exists in D&D), absolutely does not force more variety compared to mana. You can do the same spell over and over with spellslots, using higher level slots to upcast it

Higher level spells are more potent than upcasting lower level ones.

So while you can theoretically spend all your slots on magic missiles, no one does it in play.

DC20's "upcast" system is far more sophisticated than D&D's,

Superlatives doesn't explain anything.

and using mana as the system plays into facilitating a wider amount of variety, since there's more possibility of changing your spells depending on how much mana you want to spend.

Still not explaining how that prevents people from doing the same move over and over.

Wrong. DC20 has penalties for trying to do certain things over and over,

It's a per turn penalty.


It doesn't stop you from spamming grease + "bonus action" firebolt every turn.

and the flexibility of the action economy already promotes more variety on its own. D&D does not encourage variety. It encourages building around cheesing your bonus action as much as you can.

You really have some weird sore spot about "bonus" actions.

But go ahead and explain how you DC20 does not encourage trying to get the most out of cheesing your 4th action? Or the 2 minor actions?


Maybe I am missing something.

 

[comrade raoul]

I have to admit, I too knew everything at age 20, and thought older people just didn't know anything and could not comprehend my deeper understanding.

I knew everything, too! Shame I forgot it.

 

[Retreater]

Granted, I don't plan to get 2024. I'll take a free copy, look at the SRD, or maybe buy a used copy down the road. So I think it's valuable to discuss options.
Can we jump into how Nimble 5E, Tales of the Valiant, and Level Up might also deserve some attention?

 

[Remathilis]

Granted, I don't plan to get 2024. I'll take a free copy, look at the SRD, or maybe buy a used copy down the road. So I think it's valuable to discuss options.
Can we jump into how Nimble 5E, Tales of the Valiant, and Level Up might also deserve some attention?

Maybe if you start a new thread by insulting people who don't play those systems.

 

[Chaltab]

Honestly the things I've been hearing about DC20 make it sound like Dungeon coach would be happier playing Mutants & Masterminds instead of D&D. Like the focus on granular points of all stripes make me question why have classes at all.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

I’m not.

Shh!

 

[W'rkncacnter]

We can see this in an example. Josh Sawyer, a lead designer for Obsidian Entertainment, spoke at a convention, its on youtube, about an instance of this. Where he talks about how a player base found a gun, in one of their games, as under-powered. In a following patch, Obsidian changed only the sound effect. After that single change to the sound, players thought the gun was much better. It was not, it was the same. The perception of the sound, made the players think the math was off.

i wonder if he got the idea from wolfenstein enemy territory, where players thought the thompson was way stronger then the mp40 (to the point where examining statistics revealed players literally performed better with the thompson then with the mp40!) despite being mechanically identical because its firing sound was beefier.

 

[mamba]

LOL!!! That is not how the world works. Mediocre products "beat" superior ones all the time because of visibility and conditioning.

if you had said because of pricing, you would have had a point, you are not the arbiter of good taste.

They've played many, and the mechanics being formulated shows great expertise and more consideration than an average player.

He himself says he has only played 5e, and from what I have seen I'd say it shows an amateur's homebrew getting out of control, not design expertise.

Trying to measure art or the quality of a product based on age or resume is a mistake in the first place.

that is why no one cares about your resume, and you might as well go to your accountant for medical advice, give me a break. Sure, sometimes some genius comes along and defies the odds, but I would not want to make that case here...

 

[DinoInDisguise]

i wonder if he got the idea from wolfenstein enemy territory, where players thought the thompson was way stronger then the mp40 (to the point where examining statistics revealed players literally performed better with the thompson then with the mp40!) despite being mechanically identical because its firing sound was beefier.

The talk was in 2016 at GDC. But it is the same concept. Sometimes people overvalue theory and under value perception.

I dont have time stamps, but here is a link if anyone wants to listen to a very niche game design talk:

Tales of the Valiant, and Level Up

I adore both of these, and recommend both all the time. Some of the absolute best 5e material out there, in my opinion. Between these two and Sly Flourish's books, I haven't bought a WotC book in many years. And I feel like most of my gripes with 5e are no more.

On a side note, I would love a reason to gush about ToV's Monster Vault. But who wants to read 500 words on why condition vulnerabilities and resistances are the bees knees?

 

[mamba]

Mental note to self. Actively avoid DC 20. In a year ir two no one will care anyway let's face it.

eh, I am mildly curious, when I can get it all in a humble bundle in two years, I might take a look