D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Zuranthium]

What a productive weekend! I saw a bunch of you out there canvassing on social media. The movement to move away from D&D and not buy D&D 2024 is growing. Great job!

You don't have to throw away Constitution or Ability scores.
You fix them.

You're trying to argue that 6 attributes is the best way to design a game, without giving any reason - basically just to act like D&D does it best. If you follow your own logic, then D&D only having 6 is heavily flawed, and instead should have 20 different stats. Stamina, Concentration, Constitution are all different things. Agility, Dexterity, Speed are different. Upper Body and Lower Body Strength are different. Willpower, Beauty, Charisma are different. There are different types of Intellect and Wisdom. "Private Parts" size - some would say the most important stat of all.

What does "constitution" really, truly add to the game? How does it make sense that this attribute covers completely different things like poison resistance, ability to hold your breath, ability to survive without eating, and concentration? The answer is, unless you have a ton of attributes, they will very often not hold up to scrutiny. But a great game doesn't need to be so pedantic, and there are other ways to express character traits to begin with - such as giving characters more feats, which they can use to gain extra health or resists or concentration, thus expressing the "constitution" they want to have.

Having gone through DC20...

As a designer, I find it wildly imbalanced between classes, with simply too little difference between some of them to create a sincere feeling of distinction. Particularly the casters who practically function identically except for one level 1 ability to try and add a hint of spice...

This is not accurate. Each caster has different mechanics, much more than what D&D provides.

And what imbalance? That statement is not the reality of how playtests have gone. You're also completely ignoring how there is more development to come, and this game actually cares deeply about both balance and flavor, and has the capability to constantly refine itself and directly include our feedback, unlike current D&D.

DC20 is an improvement over 5e

Yes, many games are. Down with D&D 5E!! Say NO to 2024! The dungeon is rancid and the dragon is plastic! Vote for REALNESS this year! Change starts here, make the world better for your children!

 

[Corinnguard]

What a productive weekend! I saw a bunch of you out there canvassing on social media. The movement to move away from D&D and not buy D&D 2024 is growing.

By how much compared to the number of individuals who are moving toward D&D and planning to buy D&D 2024?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

By how much compared to the number of individuals who are moving toward D&D and planning to buy D&D 2024?

All that really matters is the number of new players who can be attracted. The main significance of “50 years” is it the point when die off of original players starts to become significant.

 

[Horacio]

I had a doubt about if it was a troll... Doubt dispelled with your last post, @Zuranthium ... Good one, man, good one...
Not sure if DC20 authors will be so happy about it...

 

[Corinnguard]

All that really matters is the number of new players who can be attracted. The main significance of “50 years” is it the point when die off of original players starts to become significant.

Exactly. The number of new players attracted to D&D by paid advertisement (Hasbro/WoTC) and word-of-mouth (older DMs and older players) on sites like this one and at gaming tables. 2024 D&D was designed mostly for the next generation of D&D Players.

I saw and participated in a thread not too long ago where the OP asked everyone as to how old they were compared to them. To me, it looked like most of the replies were coming from posters in their 50's to 60's, myself included. So, I think the OP needs to roll for another Perception check and follow it up with an Insight, Persuasion and Performance check.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

While we wait to learn more about the most important stats, boob/cock size, as mentioned above, let me point out a really innovative game system that it is really worthy to have a revolution about. A system that we should all move to.

It's a multi-genre role-playing game.

Character classes are Alchemist, Amazon, Aquarian, Archer, Bio Syntha Cyborg, Chameleon Drake, Dwarf, Giant, Gnome, Mage Warrior, Mutant, Ninja, Psielf, Shadow Master, Shadow Warrior, Shaman, Tiger (Golden/Scarlet), Tiger (Mage), Wereman and Winged Warrior. Too many races to list, but just as a preview, you can have Arackmen, Cattars, Tree Demons, Mutant Lizoids, Talking Raccoons and Mutant Vampires.

There are tables to roll on for eye colour, height, hand use, appearance, gender, racial type (you can be a hispanic Wereman!). There are 192 skills, weapons of all types (from swords to Bi'reel Planet Smashers that do 200,000,000 to 12,000,000,000 damage and have 24 light years range). About 90 pages of monsters, Alchemy, Chi, Earthpower, Mutations, Psi, Shadow Warrior Abilities, Shaman Songs. Oh and Denderant Narabelong. The mightiest power of all.

You can buy it here: Synnibarr Official Home.

Let the revolution begin!

 

[Minigiant]

You're trying to argue that 6 attributes is the best way to design a game, without giving any reason - basically just to act like D&D does it best.

It was only DMCoach to state why removing both Constitution and Wisdom is beneficial and what aspects they had could be seamlessly place on others without confusion.

But that wasn't done. Other editions like 4e and 3e made Con more important than HP. And other game have rejiggered Wisdom or narrowed it down to Empathy or Perception.

But simply removing it because 5e does it wrong. Are you making a new game or just new 5e? Either way you'd want to learn from the ideas of other RPGs. Because Short distance running and Long distance running are different. Pushing a boulder and resisting poison and cold uses different organs.

Simplify if you want. But don't use 5e as your sole reason. 5e isn't the only RPG. It's not the only edition of D&D.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

A good game system should ensure verisimilitude by consistent logic. This game has that. Here is a quote from the book how abilities work:

"Powers:
This term encompasses magic, psionics, earthpower, alchemy and chi, and may also include V.N., pure Psionics and God Power. Each type of power is created by different forces. These forces are harnessed by the body, shaped by the characters life force, then projected outward. These forces are conducted through the atmosphere or vacuum by the radiation emitted by the substance caprenium.
Caprenium radiation comes from the combination of caprecium and technentium. It takes both caprecium and technentium to allow powers to function. Caprecium and technentium are present everywhere. However, if there is another source of radiation nearby that is superdominant, such as special star types, then the effects of the technentium and capricium combination may be diluted or even nullified. For this reason, powers will not function in some areas, solar systems or dimensions."

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

By new, I would say games created at or around the OGL scandal. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to fail, but my guess is that they will have a very tiny audience. Not because they aren't good, but because of lack of momentum as well as the fact that D&D has a robust infrastructure that onboards new players fairly easily, and it's easier to find more people willing to play D&D.

D&D enjoys what is essentially the snowball effect.

Not to mention they have an advertising and promotion budget that new TTRPGs can't compete with.

I very much get the impression that Advanced 5e, and almost all of the "D&D-like" games created at the OGL point are not trying to jockey for D&D's market position. From the advertising I've seen, they are not trying very hard to bring new people into the TTRPG hobby, but rather marketing to existing D&D players who want something close to 5e but with tweaks to fit their preference.
ToV for example, started by basing a lot of its appeal on not being WotC D&D, emphasising what it wasn't, rather than what it was.
For these companies, piggybacking on 5e like this is absolutely viable. Aiming at having a share of the existing D&D community rather than trying to create your own from scratch is going to be more successful.
Having enough custom to sustain yourself and fund some future growth is success.

Not for D&D2024. Martial classes are waaaay more buffed than spell casters. I've been testing a monk for some time now, and it probably needs a nerf. Stupidly mobile with incredible defence and top tier damage. Our barbarian/fighter multi-class character has way more options and damage is significantly up, not that he was hurting for DPR before.

As things shake down, we will see if the buffs were sufficient to even out the capabilities in all three pillars for the classes.
Top-end martial performance went down, but less-heavily optimised martials have improved overall.

What a productive weekend! I saw a bunch of you out there canvassing on social media. The movement to move away from D&D and not buy D&D 2024 is growing. Great job!

Yes, many games are. Down with D&D 5E!! Say NO to 2024! The dungeon is rancid and the dragon is plastic! Vote for REALNESS this year! Change starts here, make the world better for your children!

Going to have to ask, since it sounds like this "movement" trying to trash 5e and the people who play it and advertise DC20 in association with said denigration may be (semi)organised:
Did you run this past Alan first?
And he was fine with you doing this?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I very much get the impression that Advanced 5e, and almost all of the "D&D-like" games created at the OGL point are not trying to jockey for D&D's market position. From the advertising I've seen, they are not trying very hard to bring new people into the TTRPG hobby, but rather marketing to existing D&D players who want something close to 5e but with tweaks to fit their preference.
ToV for example, started by basing a lot of its appeal on not being WotC D&D, emphasising what it wasn't, rather than what it was.
For these companies, piggybacking on 5e like this is absolutely viable. Aiming at having a share of the existing D&D community rather than trying to create your own from scratch is going to be more successful.
Having enough custom to sustain yourself and fund some future growth is success.



As things shake down, we will see if the buffs were sufficient to even out the capabilities in all three pillars for the classes.
Top-end martial performance went down, but less-heavily optimised martials have improved overall.



Going to have to ask, since it sounds like this "movement" trying to trash 5e and the people who play it and advertise DC20 in association with said denigration may be (semi)organised:
Did you run this past Alan first?
And he was fine with you doing this?

Indeed. The irony is, all these other publishers depend on WotC to create their market. So hurting WotC hurts their business as well. If WotC does well, and they can cream off a percentage, they benefit.