D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Mallus]

And when I started playing D&D, it didn't have nearly so many action hero tropes built into it.

That’s technically true, but it elides the fact that D&D has always had PC level advancement as a core mechanic. The game is literally built around becoming action heroes/superheroes, like most protagonists in the inspirational reading.

Unless you’d like to make the argument a 10th level PC qualifies as an ‘ordinary person’.

 

[Corinnguard]

Unless you’d like to make the argument a 10th level PC qualifies as an ‘ordinary person’.

If you are the only 10th level Fighter in a party of 10th level spellcasters, you might think you were the only one who was ordinary.

 

[Mallus]

If you are the only 10th level Fighter in a party of 10th level spellcasters, you might think you were the only one who was ordinary.

Truth.

 

[Remathilis]

I still prefer zero to hero. My current PCs are a park ranger, an account who just became a psychic, a mechanic, and a rodeo clown (and a robot bartender, to be fair). None of them are particularly heroic or any kind of warrior by nature, just regular folks that happened to be in a hotel bar when the world ended.

I mean, there are plenty of stories to tell about everyday normal people who survive extraordinary odds. The Walking Dead was built on exactly that trope, and I would wager lots of stories in the True Crime, Horror, and Disaster genres all feature this kind of (protagonists? Heros? What word would you prefer here?)

I just think D&D has never really done those genres well. Arguably, the first three levels of OS D&D are survival horror, but the game never billed itself as such and it doesn't remain that way for very long. I think that's why so many players felt a tonal disconnect: they are promised The Avengers, but only if they sit through Halloween first.

For me, the "normal people who are thrown into an extraordinary circumstance" doesn't really mesh well with D&D, If you can make it work, more power to you, but it reminds me why Ravenloft games so often fail: D&D isn't good for real horror, but it's great for dark fantasy. You either play to the system's strength, twist the system to play the genre, or find a better suited system.

 

[Corinnguard]

protagonists? Heros? What word would you prefer here?

Protagonists. Even if the characters truly did something heroic to save the day, how many of them truly want to stand apart from the crowd and be the center of attention? Not many, I can imagine. Most would probably be content to slip away and be 'ordinary' again.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That’s technically true, but it elides the fact that D&D has always had PC level advancement as a core mechanic. The game is literally built around becoming action heroes/superheroes, like most protagonists in the inspirational reading.

Unless you’d like to make the argument a 10th level PC qualifies as an ‘ordinary person’.

PC level advancement is not the same thing as action hero. You used to be able to start at a place more closely resembling a normal person of the setting. Just because some don't want to do that anymore doesn't mean it was never a thing.

 

[Maxperson]

If you are the only 10th level Fighter in a party of 10th level spellcasters, you might think you were the only one who was ordinary.

Unless it's a word of spellcasters and the fighter is the one guy born in the last 1000 years without magic. Then he's the weird one who is going to doom the world to a boring, magicless future.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, there are plenty of stories to tell about everyday normal people who survive extraordinary odds. The Walking Dead was built on exactly that trope, and I would wager lots of stories in the True Crime, Horror, and Disaster genres all feature this kind of (protagonists? Heros? What word would you prefer here?)

I just think D&D has never really done those genres well. Arguably, the first three levels of OS D&D are survival horror, but the game never billed itself as such and it doesn't remain that way for very long. I think that's why so many players felt a tonal disconnect: they are promised The Avengers, but only if they sit through Halloween first.

For me, the "normal people who are thrown into an extraordinary circumstance" doesn't really mesh well with D&D, If you can make it work, more power to you, but it reminds me why Ravenloft games so often fail: D&D isn't good for real horror, but it's great for dark fantasy. You either play to the system's strength, twist the system to play the genre, or find a better suited system.

I always prefer to muck around with the latter two options, depending on what my players are willing to accept.

 

[Corinnguard]

Unless it's a word of spellcasters and the fighter is the one guy born in the last 1000 years without magic. Then he's the weird one who is going to doom the world to a boring, magicless future.

"Weird? Far from it. I just like to think I am the only ordinary person on this world."

 

[Micah Sweet]

Protagonists. Even if the characters truly did something heroic to save the day, how many of them truly want to stand apart from the crowd and be the center of attention? Not many, I can imagine. Most would probably be content to slip away and be 'ordinary' again.

Yeah. To be a hero is to be an outstanding moral example or role model, by the standards of one's culture (a standard that obviously shifts with time and space). I prefer that D&D not make that demand on PCs and players.