D&D General D&D 3.5 - splatbook power creep or no?

[Maxperson]

Many campaigns have downtime. Hell the archetypal fantasy LOTR has downtime where characters rest and recuperate. It is perfectly fine to setup a plot that is non-stop 24/365 action. It is also perfectly fine to have a plot that takes place in ebbs and flows over the course of months and years instead of days and weeks.

Only in the magically protected elven "fortresses." And as I said in a prior post, occasionally there will be an area where you know you are safe for an extended period of time.

 

[Maxperson]

So what your saying is....DMs should punish players for using their class abilities or feats.

No. Nothing I said even hinted at punishment. I'm just not going to stop the world from happening so that the wizard has time to craft things. If I know that there is going to be an encounter on day 2, it's happening on day 2 regardless. When that encounter shows up, the player of the wizard has the choice to take himself out of the game for a while, or stop crafting and go with everyone else.

No punishment is happening.

 

[Maxperson]

Not everyone is smart thoughtful players, though. A class should be viable on its own, you shouldn't have to be dependent on another character feeling merciful and not playing at their full potential. Rogues are a bit of an unfair one to bring up given they touch on the spell system so they can punch a bit above their weight class, I'd moreso look at fighter or monk

If the player of the caster is being "merciful" by not invalidating another player's character, that person is an ass and should be kicked out of the game immediately. By "thoughtful" I meant considerate of the other players. Anyone who isn't "thoughtful" in that context doesn't deserve a spot at the table.

 

[Mecheon]

If the player of the caster is being "merciful" by not invalidating another player's character, that person is an ass and should be kicked out of the game immediately. By "thoughtful" I meant considerate of the other players. Anyone who isn't "thoughtful" in that context doesn't deserve a spot at the table.

That's how 3.5e operates, though. If one player's a monk and another's a druid, the druid is outclassing the monk no matter what either of them do. 3.5e's classes were not built equal, and its a massive failing of the system that needs to be factored in when discussing power creep. A GM can do what they can to try to fight against this, but you're straining against the system and there's only so much you can do. Genuinely, you can remove a druid's spellcasting entirely, and they're still outdoing everything the monk can do, simply due to how the two classes were designed.

I think the problem is there at the start. Later books add more power, sure, but it isn't a bad thing: most of the PHB classes direly need that power to try to keep up with the Cleric/Druid/Wizard trifecta. Any hope of balance is gone from the start. Druid alone is so powerful that I don't think there's much of a power creep problem, moreso other classes trying desperately to keep up with druid, and failing. They increase in power, sure, but the upper boundary, the druid, is still the upper boundary out of all of the base classes. No sourcebook class can knock it off its pedestal, with only the Sha'ir coming close

 

[EzekielRaiden]

There's never really down time.

And here we have the "well everyone plays the way I do, so this cannot be a problem".

 

[EzekielRaiden]

If the player of the caster is being "merciful" by not invalidating another player's character, that person is an ass and should be kicked out of the game immediately. By "thoughtful" I meant considerate of the other players. Anyone who isn't "thoughtful" in that context doesn't deserve a spot at the table.

So anyone who writes "Druid" on their character sheet is automatically an ass? That seems kinda harsh.

 

[TwoSix]

So anyone who writes "Druid" on their character sheet is automatically an ass? That seems kinda harsh.

Well, at the very least they're a dirty, granola-chewing hippie.

 

[Maxperson]

That's how 3.5e operates, though. If one player's a monk and another's a druid, the druid is outclassing the monk no matter what either of them do. 3.5e's classes were not built equal, and its a massive failing of the system that needs to be factored in when discussing power creep. A GM can do what they can to try to fight against this, but you're straining against the system and there's only so much you can do. Genuinely, you can remove a druid's spellcasting entirely, and they're still outdoing everything the monk can do, simply due to how the two classes were designed.

I think the problem is there at the start. Later books add more power, sure, but it isn't a bad thing: most of the PHB classes direly need that power to try to keep up with the Cleric/Druid/Wizard trifecta. Any hope of balance is gone from the start. Druid alone is so powerful that I don't think there's much of a power creep problem, moreso other classes trying desperately to keep up with druid, and failing. They increase in power, sure, but the upper boundary, the druid, is still the upper boundary out of all of the base classes. No sourcebook class can knock it off its pedestal, with only the Sha'ir coming close

I'm talking about class niches, not power levels. If you have a wizard and a cleric casting Knock, Find Traps, etc. instead of letting the rogue do it, they're being douches. Power level is a completely different issue and is only broken if you feel that it is.

I played a ton of fighters and rogues along side wizards, druids and clerics, and not once did I feel left out or useless. That sort of thing is entirely a creation of your(general you) own mind.

 

[Maxperson]

And here we have the "well everyone plays the way I do, so this cannot be a problem".

Try again. I said several posts prior to that that DMs create the problem by enabling through just shutting down the world. They can play however they like, but if they create the problem, they shouldn't complain about it.

 

[Maxperson]

So anyone who writes "Druid" on their character sheet is automatically an ass? That seems kinda harsh.

Ha ha, but no. A druid isn't doing rogue things and fighter things, intruding on their niches by default. It's a deliberate choice the player makes to do something like that.

Again, this is not about power disparity which is a completely different issue. Power disparity cannot invalidate another character unless the player of that character allows to happen through subjective belief.