D&D: Adventurers, Not Heroes

[Glyfair]

THIS confuses me. No, it hasn't. As it's been pointed out, if you look at the old 1e modules, the PCs went into the dungeons for promises of loot and knowledge at risk to themselves. Not because "It's for the greater good", but because "Sweet, loot is in there".

However, there is always the subtext of fighting against evil. The GDQ series has the main storyline being thwarting the plans of the demoness Lolth and her lackeys. The A series has the PCs fighting against a group of slavers. The Temple of Elemental Evil is about the heroes against a evil (it's even in the name).

Dragonlance? Good vs. evil.

Tomb of Horrors? Go into the tomb and kill the evil demi-lich.

Against the Cult of the Reptile God? Save the villagers.

Even when the adventure is set as a straight "find the treasure rumored to be hidden" mission, you are fighting evil creatures. Very rare is the adventure that even considers that you might side with evil against good.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, I suppose in the end, my whining on enworld is not going to effect the style of D&D 4th edition. I do like playing high-death games and low-fantasy games where PCs are "just ordinary folks" sometimes. But regardless, I'm looking forward to how the new edition turns out. At the best, it might make it *easier* to run 1st-level games because 1st-level PCs wil be tougher and thus able to last longer and fight more monsters... in fact, I suppose that's the 4e designers' intentions. And if I want to play a mean game in 4e where the PCs are weak relative to other characters in the game world, this thread has suggested a few interesting options.

Now I'm just gonna hope they don't nerf the high-level magic. (*fingers crossed*)

Oh, if enough complain, it might be heard by the developers and rethink. But since even yourself see some advantages (and I think you nailed down the designers intentions pretty well) and options to change the game if it's not what you want, it doesn't seem that likely.

 

[Jhaelen]

First level characters are peons, nobodies. They don't have a story. It is up to you to forge a story through game-play. Your character's story is when you are tenth level (or some other advanced level) looking back on your adventuring career.

I remember creating a 3e character shortly after the edition premiered in 2000. The DM asked me if I wanted to create a back-story for him. I replied, "If he survives to about 5th level, I'll get back to you."

Well, that's one (common) approach. The other approach is to provide a detailed background right from the start. It's a matter of personal taste, really.

Two of my players have written several short stories about their 'adventures' before we actually started playing - however, they didn't start at first level (sic!).

Another player doesn't seem to care much and basically just reincarnates his original character all the time, changing only minor aspects of his background.

I find it difficult to imagine that even a first level character doesn't have anything interesting to write down, especially representatives of the long-living races. Noone lives in a vacuum; there'll be family, friends and maybe even enemies. Finally, every character should have a motivation for becoming an adventurer (unless developing the reason is part of the first adventure).

I don't mind if a character doesn't have any background at first level, but I do mind if the character doesn't have one at 10th level!

@ptolemy18: It seems your views on character creation aren't that different from mine after all I, too, enjoy creating new characters a lot, even if their life expectancy isn't particularly high. That's why I am most often the DM; this allows me to try out different character concepts as often as I like.

But it still pains me to see a player's character die, when the player invested a lot of effort into developing the character. In the past I've simply used a higher starting level (2 or 3), but I'd prefer a system where the characters are stronger from the start.

 

[Fobok]

I do like playing high-death games and low-fantasy games where PCs are "just ordinary folks" sometimes.

May I highly reccomend, if you can find a copy anywhere since it's out of print, the Game of Thrones D20 system from Guardians of Order? Combat in that game is so deadly players rarely even want to fight.