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D&D and Call of Cthulhu Climb Again in Roll20's Latest Stats

Roll20 has released its latest usage figures. These are for Q2, 2021. And they have a new fancy format!

D&D is, of course, still right up there at the top with nearly 54% of the market -- up from 53% in Q1 of this year. Call of Cthulhu continues its inexorable rise, climbing from 11% to 16%, and Pathfinder 2E gained from 1.5% to 1.8% (I'm told that most VTT action for PF2E happens on Foundry, not Roll20).

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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Jaeger

That someone better.
You can keep repeating this, but, it really doesn't make it true.

But, hey, whatever floats your boat.

Been in this debate before on another forum.

It’s not fake news, it actually happened.

Might take me a bit to find, but I’ll dig up my old post and cut and paste this weekend here.
 

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BigZebra

Explorer
It really doesn't look good for PF2 that it isn't growing much (if at all) on Roll20. I know people keep saying most play PF2 on Foundry. But Roll20 is just so much bigger, that statistically it is still significant, even for PF2. Also Roll20 have stepped up their PF2-game.
 

BigZebra

Explorer
Been in this debate before on another forum.

It’s not fake news, it actually happened.

Might take me a bit to find, but I’ll dig up my old post and cut and paste this weekend here.
I don't think there ever was any actual official numbers to back up the claim. The common consensus is mostly that yes, during 4e' last time, when there wasn't any new content and Mearls et al was working on 5e, PF did outsell 4e. But don't think it's 100% confirmed. Either way spinning it as PF generally was outselling D&D seems like a mischaracterization.
 

BigZebra

Explorer
Also I don't understand why Roll20 don't put up more PF1 content, since the player base (on Roll20 at least) is bigger than the PF2 base. I would by it.
 

Jaeger

That someone better.
I don't think there ever was any actual official numbers to back up the claim. The common consensus is mostly that yes, during 4e' last time, when there wasn't any new content and Mearls et al was working on 5e, PF did outsell 4e. But don't think it's 100% confirmed. Either way spinning it as PF generally was outselling D&D seems like a mischaracterization.

Hopefully I can find my old post sooner rather than later, then you can make up your own minds.
 


xaosseed

Villager
Is Savage Worlds really such a minor system or is it simply underrepresented on Roll20?
The appear in the Fantasy Grounds article - looks to me to be about 8k out of 300k so ~2.5% which beats 0.4% on Roll20. Still looks like a relatively small presence. Maybe they have an online stronghold somewhere else.
 

Nilbog

Snotling Herder
As a PF2E fan, I have to say the situation does look bleak, I hope paizo can turn it around as I believe it's a great system and would be gutted if support for it dried up.
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
PF1e doubling PF2e...wonder why? Probably has to do with the fact there wasn't a real demand for it and PF1e was doing just great, then Paizo tossed it aside for PF2e like it was the best thing ever to come to gaming. :LOL: Bad idea to have their fanbase split apart, they could've gone strong with PF1e but I guess that's the point of a venturing risk...it's a risk for probably success or failure.
Because PF2 fans use Foundry instead.
 


Grendel_Khan

Adventurer
I remain somewhat surprised that CoC is doing so well. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game, I just constantly underestimate it's appeal I guess.

CoC is great for one-shots/short campaigns, plus it's huge in Japan (cliche unintended but unavoidable here), where it's apparently the default RPG. Plus Roll20 supports it well, and doing an investigative game remote with something like Discord just sucks--players don't have an easy way to keep track of handouts, view and refer back to visuals, etc.

Also if you think about what the go-to game for serious horror fans would be, it's not something like Ravenloft, and more direct stuff like Monster of the Week is still pretty obscure. So whether you lean into the Mythos or not, CoC is essentially the D&D of horror.
 

Ringtail

World Traveller
I remain somewhat surprised that CoC is doing so well. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game, I just constantly underestimate it's appeal I guess.
This is my experience, but it could have some merit for others, I dunno. When I pitch other kinds of RPGs people tend to ask "Why don't we just play D&D?"

But Call of Cthulhu is so unique in it's tone and gameplay that my 5e purists accept it for what it is, a unique experience. But talking about Symbaroum, Warhammer Fantasy RP, OSR D&D, Shadow of the Demon Lord, The One Ring, etc. . . I get some sort of "well can't we just homebrew 5e to be like that?"

Plus, people like horror movies.
 

darjr

I crit!
PDFs for all past editions are available, including if you want to pay for them.

In each case you bring the maps in from the pdfs...this is why I started using roll20.

In any case, 3.5 and AD&D are lording it over 4E.
But not the rule set or it’s integration. 3.5 is still available as srd or third party rule sets.
I will concede however that I dunno if that’s what makes the difference.
 


Jimmy Dick

Explorer
PF1e doubling PF2e...wonder why? Probably has to do with the fact there wasn't a real demand for it and PF1e was doing just great, then Paizo tossed it aside for PF2e like it was the best thing ever to come to gaming. :LOL: Bad idea to have their fanbase split apart, they could've gone strong with PF1e but I guess that's the point of a venturing risk...it's a risk for probably success or failure.
Most PF2e is done on Foundry. 2e's sales are excellent which shows the fan base was not split apart. Some diehards are sticking with 1e which is perfectly fine, but since 1e sales were declining Paizo had to make a decision about what their future would be.

While this report shows one thing, online cons are showing something quite different regarding 1e vs. 2e. PaizoCon's table count was easily more than 3 to 1 in favor of 2e while the player count was more than 4.5 to 1. All of the major online cons I participated in were in similar situations. Even the online games played via the forums are the same if not even more strongly oriented towards 2e.

Some regional and local cons may reflect different results due to the availability of organizers and GMs for the different systems, but on the grand scale, 2e has hit a huge home run.
 

Jimmy Dick

Explorer
Hey look. The Edition Wars have come back to ENWorld. What a surprise.
That is because some people want 2e to fail, so they keep saying it is a failure while the evidence is overwhelming the exact opposite. Gee, I wonder who else is saying something happened last year that obvious did not happen when examined with factual evidence?

Ah, edition wars. We'll always have them. They're like seasons of the year. They never stop happening.
 

Kannik

Adventurer
Seriously? It's been TEN years since 4e was put to pasture and you folks are still dancing on the grave? Good grief, move on already.
Hear hear. This strikes me as an amazing amount of pettiness. I'm sorry you didn't like 4e, but plenty others did/do and had great adventures and fun playing in it. Just as many are having fun in 5e, and had/having fun in previous editions.

I for one prefer to grow the family and share our excitement for roleplaying than to take self-righteous and knickers-twisting potshots.
 

Fritterfae

Villager
Seeing the PF2 numbers on Roll20 and hearing the continual refrain that most people are playing PF2 on Foundry instead makes me want someone to do some investigative journalism to see what Foundry's numbers actually are. My guess is that it because games are locally hosted that the company doesn't really know exactly how many games of what system are being played at a time, but I could be wrong about that. But they probably have numbers on downloads and they do have a community hub for PF2 content. You could also probably cross reference what VTT was used for conventions and Pathfinder Society games online as well. Paizo staff have repeatedly said that the company is doing great, PF2 is selling better than PF1 ever did and that every book is selling through its print runs. So, when these kinds of reports come out from Roll20 some people may be seeing what they want to see in those numbers. The VTT landscape is much broader than Roll20, so maybe a more complete picture would be helpful.
 

darjr

I crit!
Eh. PF2 IS doing great. As much traction as COC has on Roll20 I think the sales info we have shows PF2, far and away, the second best selling RPG. That's huge success. I mean other RPG companies, other than WotC, would LOVE to have that success.

The rest of it? Is it doing better than PF1? I don't think anyone but Paizo can say with any real certainty. Though I'd like to see numbers.

As far as Foundries numbers, I think the only way to get a handle on it is with an upper bound kind of number, like how many copies of the software has been sold. After that maybe how many copies of the PF2 engine have been downloaded. (Those numbers, by the way, someone does have).

But in the end PF2 is a smash hit, no two bones about it. Even just going by the Roll20 numbers.
 

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