D&D and the rising pandemic

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
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Oh, of course. ((Just to be clear, I'm Canadian, living in Japan))

No one is saying do nothing. But, claims that we're going to see 10's of thousands of dead in the next couple of weeks is just fear mongering at its worst. If this virus was really that deadly, wouldn't you think that China would be having a somewhat larger problem? Or Japan?

Heck, our kids go back to school next week. We did our due dilligence. We stayed home for a month. We closed down the country. And, cases have been relatively mild and it's being handled pretty well.

It's like the testing thing. Testing doesn't really do anything. Guess what? This is a virus. They can do exactly nothing for you if you test positive. Zero. Zilch. There has never, ever been a cure for any virus. What they can do is treat the pneumonia that develops from the virus - but, if you don't develop pneumonia, which most people don't, Covid-19 is not going to kill you.

The problem in Italy was that they tested tons of people and then sent everyone who tested positive to the hospital, completely overwhelming their medical care and completely failing to triage the problem. Because they panicked. And, frankly, Italy has largely the same demographic profile as Japan - lots of very old people which meant that the virus was a lot more deadly.

It's a very, very complicated issue. And it's going to take some time to resolve. But, overblown cries that the sky is falling and we're all going to die is not helpful. At all.
First of all, there are 2 viruses that have been eliminated, smallpox and rinderpest. There’s maybe a half dozen more on the verge.

Part of the reason epidemiologists and other healthcare professionals are so concerned about Covid-19 is that it is extremely contagious. Here’s a professor explaining the math of its virulence:

With some experts currently predicting as much as 1/4 of the world’s population will contract Covid-19 in this first of several expected outbreaks, the current average estimated global fatality rate of 1% for Covid-19 translates into more than 23m deaths.

Since we have no currently effective antiviral treatments, vaccines, and no known herd immunity*, social distancing and quarantines are our only effective weapons. And in order to use those weapons effectively, we need to test, test, test.


* a recent study indicates that Covid-19 may have originated earlier than we suspect, possibly in a less dangerous form or disguised by other afflictions.
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Yes, a bit of perspective is more helpful. You're completely disregarding how the growth is still exponential. The total number of deaths is not as important as how fast those deaths are happening. And since we know it takes 2 weeks or longer from getting positive to death, we're still two weeks behind as far as data goes in that regard. 2 weeks ago, there were only 27 deaths in the US with 1000 identified positive.

im not sure deaths are 2 weeks behind. I imagine most people get tested after having the thing 1-2 weeks already. I’m figuring deaths are 7-10 days behind currently Confirmed cases on average (and possibly less)
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
2 days ago the US had 1000 deaths. Now it's 1500. With the graph continuing to exponentially grow. So it's entirely reasonable that we can be looking at tens of thousands of deaths (and hundreds of thousands of long term effects) before this is over. That's not hyperbole or overreaction.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Italy has hit 900 a day.

USA is 5 the new bigger and has done even less than Italy and to contain it.

Ad I said 9/11 every 1-3 days depending on how bad it gets.

If they match Italy per capita it's roughly 1.5 9/11s every day.

On the plus side a few factors are different.

USA is at around 300/day and it's accelerating so go figure.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
2 days ago the US had 1000 deaths. Now it's 1500. With the graph continuing to exponentially grow. So it's entirely reasonable that we can be looking at tens of thousands of deaths (and hundreds of thousands of long term effects) before this is over. That's not hyperbole or overreaction.

I’m thinking best case at this point is 100,000+ u.s deaths. Unless something drastic changes we are 2-3 weeks from having enough cases to see that magnitude of deaths.
 



NotAYakk

Legend
If the USA pulls out of this with only 100k dead it is a victory, you won.

1 million dead is a draw.

10 million dead before Christmas is what happens if you lose this war.

This isn't hyperbole. This is people who professionally model epidemics doing their work in the US population.

~1 million dead is if you (a) don't develop better treatment, (b) never have hospitals overrun because you scale your capacity, (c) reach herd immunity over the year, and (d) don't get lucky with a miracle (vaccine faster than anyone thinks possible, mild strain that spreads faster and grants immunity, treatment that stops it in its tracks).

~10 million dead is what happens if you hospitals can't keep up.

And for every dead person, many people with lifetime lung capacity damage.

Deaths grow at 33% daily without social distancing. 1.33^20 is 300; 1.33^30 is 5000.

The death curve changes about 20 days after you change behavior.

So an area with 10 deaths and no social distancing has already "booked" 3000 deaths, give or take.

Look at when Italy started serious measures. They started on 21 February 2020 with 21 deaths.

16 days later, on Sunday 8 March 2020 they locked down the North with 366 deaths. (366/21)^(1/16) is 1.19, or 19% growth rate per day.

Then on the 9th the entire country.

From the 8th to the 15th deaths rose to 1809, or 25.6% per day.
From the 15th to the 22nd deaths rose to 5476, or 17.1% per day.

Now the problem is by this point, too many people where dying for them to get to hospital and be tested before they die.


One town has 164 deaths. 31 attributed to coronovirus. 56 died in the same period last year. So 77 excess deaths which could be Covid-19 deaths who couldn't get to hospital before they died, or 350% of the actual official deaths.

It is plausible that Italy is undercounting their deaths by 3x, and that Covid-19 has already killed 25,000 despite a national lockdown. So possibly there are 2000 people per day dying, from 20 total just over a month ago.

At this point we are approaching 20 days after national lockdown. This should drop the growth rate closer to 10%, so 2000 per day. Then you hope to strangle the virus and bend the curve down, but still you end up with 1000s of deaths per day.

At 60 million people, if 1% die that is 600,000. You can keep up 3000 deaths/day for 200 days and not run out of fuel for this fire. And Italy death rates are higher due to health care system overload.

#stayhome

You be asymptomatic. Then you just spread it to people who die.

You could get a mild case, and have your lung capacity reduced by 10% for the rest of your life.

You could get a moderate case, and be hospitalized in overloaded facilities.

You could even get a serious case that you could live through with treatement. And you get treatment, because you are young and healthy. But every person who gets treatment is soon going to be someone else who they let die.

There are lots of "reasons" people make up why Italy is different than the USA or wherever it is you are living. But we are seeing steeper death curves in the USA than we saw in Italy in uncontrolled epidemics -- 33% instead of 20% deaths/day.
 
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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Mixed news:

There are currently 8 known strains of Covid-19 out there. But because it mutates at a fraction of the rate of seasonal influenza AND is already so good at infecting humans, they do not expect to see a more lethal strain evolve.

They also repeated the 15% hospitalization and 1% death rates.
 
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