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D&D and the rising pandemic

Ryujin

Hero
In the city where I live, there is an area that has disproportionately high infection rates. This area has an odd dichotomy as it's a newer housing development with million dollar+ homes, but a high concentration of lower paid "essential" workers. This town has a long tradition of being a place where new immigrants settle and we have a significantly higher South Asian population than Caucasian population. The homes that I mentioned are frequently multi-generational. You can have three or four generations of family living under the same roof, getting by with many people paying into the mortgage. In this way the families are able to completely pay off a house in relatively short order and then purchase another, thereby getting a leg-up in life. Because of this, whole households are easily exposed to Covid-19.

I would (and do) heartily endorse people in this area being put at the front of the line, even over people like myself who have several possible comorbidities. I can isolate, for the most part, with very limited need to leave my home for supplies, or the rare occasion that I am required to work on-site. They don't have that luxury and are potentially exposed on a daily basis, in turn exposing their loved ones (including parents too old to work). It just seems logical to me.
 

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Alphabetically is fair in terms of who gets what and when without anyone getting to salty about it.
It's smart because people will understand it.

It's smart because the psuedo-randomness makes people think it's fair, when it's trivial for those in charge to manipulate the outcome.

Choosing any system like this gives the appearance of randomness. But the outcome of any such system is 100% known ahead of time. Thus, those in power can choose which "random" system they want, and effectively choose the results. In D&D terms, it would be like letting your wizard roll 5d6 for each of their fireballs at the start of the session, letting them know how many hit points the monster has, then allowing them to choose which of their 5d6 rolls they want to use against each enemy. Sure, there was a random dice roll at some point, but the player will always pick the fireball with the exact damage the need to win each encounter, easily manipulating to get outcome they want.

In the situation BTT gives, the superintendent could have chosen by alphabetical name of the school, alphabetical name of the principal, by age of the building, distance from the center of town, or any other system to appear random, but at the end of the day they were knowingly choosing which schools got the vaccine first and which got it last. There was nothing actually random about the order. Anyone who thought it was fair because of randomness was being played, and that's well before you even get into the discussion of whether or not random distribution is actually equitable.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
It's smart because the psuedo-randomness makes people think it's fair, when it's trivial for those in charge to manipulate the outcome.

Choosing any system like this gives the appearance of randomness. But the outcome of any such system is 100% known ahead of time. Thus, those in power can choose which "random" system they want, and effectively choose the results. In D&D terms, it would be like letting your wizard roll 5d6 for each of their fireballs at the start of the session, letting them know how many hit points the monster has, then allowing them to choose which of their 5d6 rolls they want to use against each enemy. Sure, there was a random dice roll at some point, but the player will always pick the fireball with the exact damage the need to win each encounter, easily manipulating to get outcome they want.

In the situation BTT gives, the superintendent could have chosen by alphabetical name of the school, alphabetical name of the principal, by age of the building, distance from the center of town, or any other system to appear random, but at the end of the day they were knowingly choosing which schools got the vaccine first and which got it last. There was nothing actually random about the order. Anyone who thought it was fair because of randomness was being played, and that's well before you even get into the discussion of whether or not random distribution is actually equitable.

It's not random but it simple enough for people to understand and know when they get it.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
In some research pulling together an array of things noted before, a group at Leicester University along with the ONS has noted that approximately 1/3 of all C19 patients have a return visit to the hospital within 5 months, and 1/8 of those who do, die. Those deaths are related to known C19 induced side effects like organ damage and diabetes. With the current standard for cutting off point recording Covid deaths being 28 days after a positive test, this may indicate C19 has a mortality rate that is higher than previously thought.

Until further information is gathered, the takeaway is probably that you really need to monitor your health closely after a bout of Covid.
 



Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
While I agree that it’s not the best plan, there is something to be said for a course of action that is perceived to be fair in its simplicity if it avoids the real-world consequences of politicization and non-compliance.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
there is something to be said for a course of action that is perceived to be fair in its simplicity if it avoids the real-world consequences of politicization and non-compliance.

Yeah, but it doesn't seem to have managed the goal.

The problem in this instance being, as has already been noted, that an impartial process, when imposed upon an inequitable starting situation, has predictably inequitable results.

Since that result is predictable, that means the plan ISN'T actually impartial. The inequitable result is chosen implicitly, which is not impartial at all.
 



Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Yeah, but it doesn't seem to have managed the goal.

The problem in this instance being, as has already been noted, that an impartial process, when imposed upon an inequitable starting situation, has predictably inequitable results.

Since that result is predictable, that means the plan ISN'T actually impartial. The inequitable result is chosen implicitly, which is not impartial at all.
I was thinking more of the perceptions of those who have been a consistent thorn in the side of anti-Covid efforts thus far. You know, the Dunning-Kreuger clique.

Even if the plan has predictable inequities, it still may be more effective than a fairer plan if it gets the nonconformists to conform.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
Were discussing the availability of medical supplies to low income schools. You don't care if it's fair, equitable, or random as long as it's simple enough for them to understand?

That's deplorable.

I'm for whatever works. It's a plan that's an improvement over USA has been doing.

I learnt at a young age the world isn't fair or equitable and I live in a country that has better social security net.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Yeah, but it doesn't seem to have managed the goal.

The problem in this instance being, as has already been noted, that an impartial process, when imposed upon an inequitable starting situation, has predictably inequitable results.

Since that result is predictable, that means the plan ISN'T actually impartial. The inequitable result is chosen implicitly, which is not impartial at all.
People miss that... very badly
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I'm for whatever works.

Well, that's the question, isn't it. Does it work? I mean, if the plan doesn't target those with the most risk, does it work?

I learnt at a young age the world isn't fair or equitable and I live in a country that has better social security net.

So, "The world isn't fair, you guys are particularly bad at it, and STOP TRYING TO DO BETTER."

Maybe your advice on the matter isn't very good.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
So, "The world isn't fair, you guys are particularly bad at it, and STOP TRYING TO DO BETTER."
For the school superintendant, what is Job One?
He doesn't have the resources to fix the past history of wrongs done.
He does have the resources to get his staff vaccinated.

When the schools can re-open, those underprivileged children can get the education that will let them break the cycle.

This event - arrival of a vaccine for the disease that turned the world upside down - is supposed to be a happy time and a step into a more-hopeful future. Why are you so determined to make it into a/another point of grudge and suspicion and resentment?
 


Zardnaar

Legend
If they and their loved ones are not being killed first... by the inequity some people want to ignore.

Not so much ignore but getting extra money is fiendishly hard in the USA so deficit spending is usually used.

Not the way I would run a country but ideal vs reality is a thing.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Not so much ignore but getting extra money is fiendishly hard in the USA so deficit spending is usually used.
In this case we are talking about where to allocate vaccines first within areas with individually trackable case rates actually... and it can be done as applying the bandage directed at the wound it does not need to be couched in the other economic factors and such which caused this to be the case.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
In this case we are talking about where to allocate vaccines first within areas with individually trackable case rates actually... and it can be done as applying the bandage directed at the wound it does not need to be couched in the other economic factors and such which caused this to be the case.

The powers that be made a plan. Not best plan but it's a plan.

More jabby jabby.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
If they and their loved ones are not being killed first... by the inequity some people want to ignore.
The school system is not being given enough vaccines to vaccinate the students.
The school system is not being given enough vaccines to vaccinate the students' families.
The school system has been given enough vaccines to vaccinate the school staff.
 

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