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D&D and the rising pandemic

CapnZapp

Legend
And that (protection against hospitalization) is near 100% against the baseline strain from every vaccine.
That's my point!

Throwing around numbers like 86% only make people go "waitaminit - 92 is larger than 86 so I refuse the 86 vaccine, I must have the 92 one!"

A much more useful bit of consumer information is "all vaccines are 99%"!

Note: this is more of a worldwide perspective. In the U.S. you basically only use the two effective ones, so there this particular point is moot. (Instead you have fools refusing vaccines altogether, which is a different story)

But in lots of countries, it's just tragic to see people refusing a vaccine because of its effectiveness against infection when it is its effectiveness against severe disease that to me is entirely obviously the much more relevant number.
 

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Ryujin

Hero
Not sure if you intended to continue my argument only to immediately undercut it, by doing exactly what I argued against, which is to discuss other stuff than what I brought up... but let me do that thing too:

You are exactly right except herd immunity is probably just an illusion and the important number overall for me is the percentage of not getting hospitalized, not getting a hose shoved down my throat, not being put in a medical coma, and not dying.

You assume this disease is going away which it most likely is not, and we will have to keep getting vaccinated for the foreseeable future. So... to make my point again: it is the percentage against severe disease and death we should be discussing.
Nope, that's not what I'm thinking about at all. I suspect that this will be around, at least for a while. What I am considering, however, is that the variants so far appear to be handled by the vaccines, to a greater or lesser degree. Getting to herd immunity means that we might be able to kill this thing off, in the long term, in the same way that Smallpox isn't exactly common anymore. That the severity of the disease is reduced, also, is a handy byproduct.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Nope, that's not what I'm thinking about at all. I suspect that this will be around, at least for a while. What I am considering, however, is that the variants so far appear to be handled by the vaccines, to a greater or lesser degree. Getting to herd immunity means that we might be able to kill this thing off, in the long term, in the same way that Smallpox isn't exactly common anymore. That the severity of the disease is reduced, also, is a handy byproduct.
Sharply reducing cases is obviously a good thing, not least because it gives the virus fewer opportunities to mutate.

But getting there will not happen quickly. I mean, when do you think 80-90% of Africa is vaccinated? (Heck, when do you think 80-90% of America is?!)

And for the record - "Never" is one depressingly likely answer. So...

The number I want to focus on is the protection against severe disease :)
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I don't want the AZ one but I don't think we're using it anyway.

Never really been worried about getting sick even a year ago it's everything else that I was worried about (others getting sick, collapse etc).

Planned trip to Europe probably canceled permeantly as there's going to be a few who don't vaccinate.
 



Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
You know... while I am loving, LOVING not going on FaceBook anymore. I do unfortunately miss out on things like, people believing vaccines can be 'shed' onto other people.

That's like the craziest thing I have heard.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I don't want the AZ one but I don't think we're using it anyway.

Because of blood clots? This displays the usual human failure to understand risk.

The AZ vaccine was associated with one death per million uses.

In 2018 in New Zealand, driving led to about 8 deaths for every 100,000 people. Ergo, driving is 80 times more likely to kill you than the AZ vaccine. But you still drive, right?
 

NotAYakk

Legend
Because of blood clots? This displays the usual human failure to understand risk.

The AZ vaccine was associated with one death per million uses.

In 2018 in New Zealand, driving led to about 8 deaths for every 100,000 people. Ergo, driving is 80 times more likely to kill you than the AZ vaccine. But you still drive, right?
To be fair, you spend more time driving than getting injected. ;)

In a week, driving (or walking near a road) is only 1.5x deadlier than getting the AZ vaccine. Less so if you aren't a 17 year old male, who drive up the driving death rates.

OTOH, AZ vaccine gives you a superpower. Driving just gets you groceries.
 


TheAlkaizer

Game Designer
I haven't been doing too good lately. I resumed taking appointments with my psychologist. We've talked about alot of stuff. But mainly about being socially isolated during the pandemic and also lacking creative outlets outside of work. Made me realize that TTRPGs played a bigger role in my life balance.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
One week after my second Pfizer dose. In another week I might join the lunch group that was around for almost two decades pre-pandemic again. Everyone else in it is older and so has had the ability to have their second dose for the recommended time for a while. Only side effects for me was about two hours of headache the second day after. In late May, I'm also looking to have a cookout and play cards with a small group MtG players who have all been fully vaccinated.

So far SC supposedly has 41.2% of the age 15+ (even though vaccine is only 16+) with one vaccine, and 30.2% completed. One big free site in the state is shutting down due to lack of demand :-/ I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of others do so shortly. My son won't be able to get it until a month into the fall semester, assuming the approval is lowered to 12 years old. Based on the 16-24 age group, I'm not optimistic many of his classmates will get it.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
To be fair, you spend more time driving than getting injected. ;)

I think the point still stands - you drive for a year in NZ, the risk is 80x higher than getting the shot once. To make them equal, you need to drop your driving to about 1% of what it usually is. So, instead of driving every day, you only drive four days a year - once per quarter or thereabouts.
 

MarkB

Legend
I think the point still stands - you drive for a year in NZ, the risk is 80x higher than getting the shot once. To make them equal, you need to drop your driving to about 1% of what it usually is. So, instead of driving every day, you only drive four days a year - once per quarter or thereabouts.
That's very nearly as much driving as I've done in the last year, thanks to shielding and home deliveries.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
That's my point!

Throwing around numbers like 86% only make people go "waitaminit - 92 is larger than 86 so I refuse the 86 vaccine, I must have the 92 one!"

A much more useful bit of consumer information is "all vaccines are 99%"!

Note: this is more of a worldwide perspective. In the U.S. you basically only use the two effective ones, so there this particular point is moot. (Instead you have fools refusing vaccines altogether, which is a different story)

But in lots of countries, it's just tragic to see people refusing a vaccine because of its effectiveness against infection when it is its effectiveness against severe disease that to me is entirely obviously the much more relevant number.
When it comes to the Moderna and the Pfizer, I agree with you. However, given the rates of nasty damage to lungs in even asymptomatic victims of Covid, I don't want to catch it at all. The keep me out of the hospital and alive aspect is great, but only as a back-up to not getting it in the first place. I would have turned down the Johnson and Johnson for that reason.
 




Zardnaar

Legend
Because of blood clots? This displays the usual human failure to understand risk.

The AZ vaccine was associated with one death per million uses.

In 2018 in New Zealand, driving led to about 8 deaths for every 100,000 people. Ergo, driving is 80 times more likely to kill you than the AZ vaccine. But you still drive, right?

Na it's not that Pfizer one is 95% AZis what 70%? Crossing the road is more dangerous than Covid here.

I would use AZ if it was the only option.

I'll pretty much use whatever the doctors says but as it turns out I'm not a fan of pain killers.

The more microchips, mind control devices etc in the vaccine the better. Beam me up Scotty. Weeeeee
 
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CapnZapp

Legend
When it comes to the Moderna and the Pfizer, I agree with you. However, given the rates of nasty damage to lungs in even asymptomatic victims of Covid, I don't want to catch it at all. The keep me out of the hospital and alive aspect is great, but only as a back-up to not getting it in the first place. I would have turned down the Johnson and Johnson for that reason.
Not sure if you mean "I would have taken Moderna before J&J" or if you mean "I would rather go unvaccinated than take J&J".

If the first, fair enough.
 

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