D&D and the rising pandemic

[AnotherGuy]

The key to understanding the issue requires understanding of genetics - viruses constructed in labs wind up pretty distinctive from wild viruses in their genetic structure. SARS-COV-2 looks like a wild virus, not a man-made one.

That looks like is doing a lot of heavy lifting for you when in fact there were several studies last year (from Australia and Europe) which identified markers of genetic manipulation. Add to that a certain email a certain someone received last year and what you have is it looks like there is more to this story.

That last is not correct. They did not find the same strain of SARS that infects humans in the animal population. What they found was that coronaviruses exist in the bat population, and that the reservoir of viruses found in one cave had all the genetic pieces that existed in SARS, such that the virus likely came from there, possibly with a civet as a go-between bats and humans.

Well, that may mean there may have been previous lab breakouts which we do have history thereof. Our-god complex will ensure we keep making the same mistakes.

The other thing to note is that the cave the SARS virus likely came from is in Yunnan province. The SARS outbreak started in Hunan province 900 miles to the to the east! It was like having the cave in Ohio, but the epidemic starting in Connecticut! Where we humans first notice the disease in humans, and where the virus actually comes from, can be widely separated.

Ergo, there's no particular reason to think this came from the lab just because the first cases were reported nearby.

Ergo there is no particular reason to think this did not come from a lab because the first cases were reported nearby.

Well, duh. The SARS epidemic came up in 2002. Researchers from the WVI, along with others, started searching for the source of the virus in 2005. If you are going to study a virus that comes from bats, you will want bats around! They sampled thousands of bats, and came up with over 300 strains of coronaviruses in bats from all around China.

Perhaps you missed the tweet by Peter Daszak (the WHO investigator) who claimed there were no bats in the Wuhan lab. That is understandable since he did afterall delete it when intel proved him to be a liar.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Virus is chinese in origin.

Geographically yes, but if it were a lab outbreak then the blame would, at the very minimum, lie on both governments.

 

[Horwath]

Geographically yes, but if it were a lab outbreak then the blame would, at the very minimum, lie on both governments.

Well OFC, why would anyone blame anyone else than CCP for this. Either the release(if it is true), but certanly the coverup after it and downplaying of numbers.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Well OFC, why would anyone blame anyone else than CCP for this. Either the release(if it is true), but certanly the coverup after it and downplaying of numbers.

What I meant was, it is now known that EcoHealth Alliance funded this type of research in Wuhan and the NIH gave million-dollar grants to EcoHealth Alliance. It is also known that this research was once more approved by NIH in 2017
(since it being stopped in 2014).

If it were a lab leak, you would suspect there would be a cover-up, in whatever form, from both the CCP and the NIH (i.e. part of US government). History is full of governments and large corporates covering up mistakes or transgressions.

We are far from Starfleet (prior the introduction of Section 31).

 

[Umbran]

That looks like is doing a lot of heavy lifting for you when in fact there were several studies last year (from Australia and Europe) which identified markers of genetic manipulation. Add to that a certain email a certain someone received last year and what you have is it looks like there is more to this story.

These unnamed studies and "certain someone" claims are core rumor-mongering behaviors.

Cites from reliable news sources, or you can fold it five ways and toss your implications on the compost heap with the rest of the barn sweepings.

 

[AnotherGuy]

These unnamed studies and "certain someone" claims are core rumor-mongering behaviors.

Cites from reliable news sources, or you can fold it five ways and toss your implications on the compost heap with the rest of the barn sweepings.

I could say the same about your looks like comment.

 

[Umbran]

I could say the same about your looks like comment.

Sorry, but you started with the assertion about lab origins first. Onus of prof is on the one who makes the assertion. My onus is to meet or exceed your support, which at the moment is unsupported conspiracy theorizing.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not sure if any of you watch the Late Show with Stephen Colbert. But Jon Steward made an appearance a few weeks ago, where he started spreading conspiracy theories about covid being created in a lab. As much as I enjoy him as a comedian, it was painful to watch, and full of fallacies. But I fear his comedic rant is easily accepted by a gullible audience. We don't need more of this right now. It is especially surprising coming from him. I thought he was smarter than that.

For those of you who missed it. He basically said that it can't be a coincidence that covid arose in the same region as a Chinese covid lab. Thus supporting the conspiracy theory that covid was created in a Chinese lab. He compared it to a chocolate spill happening near a chocolate factory.

Of course the fallacies here are obvious. Just because there are a lot of whale-watching tourists near a bunch of whales, does not mean tourists caused the whales to appear. Obviously you would put a lab to study covid variants, in a location where covid is often found. Plus there are many kinds of covid. Just because someone is studying tigers, does not mean they are responsible when there is a sudden series of panther attacks in the same region.

As of yet Jon Steward has not apologised for his ill informed and dangerous rant. At least, as far as I know.

He went too far in declaring it to absolutely be from the facility, but it's not a conspiracy theory to think that it could be from the facility. There's a significant chance that it did, which is why many people, including highly respected scientists and governments are looking hard at it right now.

 

[CleverNickName]

He went too far in declaring it to absolutely be from the facility, but it's not a conspiracy theory to think that it could be from the facility. There's a significant chance that it did, which is why many people are looking hard at it right now.

I wouldn't call it a "significant" chance without significant evidence.

 

[Maxperson]

I wouldn't call it a "significant" chance without significant evidence.

We don't know that it came from the wild any more than we know that it came from the facility. Yet people are all hog wild to declare it to be natural and not manmade. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In a facility dedicated to the coronaviruses, where they went to study bats in caves with masks unworn not long prior to the outbreak(which China lied about and said didn't happen), members of the facility all came down sick and had to go to the hospital right before the virus began spreading through Wuhan. There's enough circumstantial evidence to absolutely think it could have come from the facility. Even if it's only a 5% or 10% chance that it did, that's very significant.