D&D and the rising pandemic

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Remember that not all countries are identical. Italy has the second oldest population on Earth, behind Japan. So COVID-19 was always going to be especially bad there, even before they screwed around early and didn't jump on things in time. The more old people in your community, or people with compromised respiratory systems, the worse it'll be.

You cannot simply say "this happened to Country A, therefore the same thing will happen to Country B," even if their governmental responses are identical.
 

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Sacrosanct

Legend
Remember that not all countries are identical. Italy has the second oldest population on Earth, behind Japan. So COVID-19 was always going to be especially bad there, even before they screwed around early and didn't jump on things in time. The more old people in your community, or people with compromised respiratory systems, the worse it'll be.

You cannot simply say "this happened to Country A, therefore the same thing will happen to Country B," even if their governmental responses are identical.

No, but you can predict very similar outcomes. Especially since the US trajectory is nearly identical as Italy, only 10 days behind. Basically what’s happening is:

Italy: we said all the same things you are saying now in the US two weeks ago, and we were totally wrong.
Americans: nah bro, we’ll do things our own way and ignore you
Americans later: WTF? This caught me totally by surprise!
 

slobster

Hero
To add on to @lowkey13 with my own story about local preparedness, I teach a class at our community college on weekends for phlebotomy students (the people who draw your blood). This Saturday we had a class, and while I was setting up in the back one of the other assistants was making an announcement about the corona virus situation.

It was, to paraphrase him, "nothing to worry about", "mostly just the media and politicians making a frenzy", "the flu kills thousands a year and nobody cares about that", "the only reason anyone cares about it is because the NBA cancelled games because they are worried about getting sued", "even the president isn't getting tested so you know it's not really a big deal", "even if you get it you'll probably be fine", the whole 9 yards. I swear to you this really happened, I am not repeating a story I heard from someone else or exaggerating a media report, I was in the room.

I was floored. This is a guy who is great at his job, whom I like and respect as a healthcare professional, but he was shovelling all this naughty word in front of these young, impressionable students who were looking for some reliable information and behavior to model their professional opinions on.

After he was done, I went up and made a follow-up announcement. I didn't directly contradict anything he said, because I think it's important not to have conflicting messages coming from positions of authority. But I restated the reasons why COVID-19 really is a different beast, and tried to emphasize our responsibilities as healthcare providers, that we need to really follow the information given by public health agencies because if we don't take it seriously, how can we expect civilians to do so, or to stay calm? I think underlining that we can be the difference between dozens or thousands of people getting sick, even dying, and being healthy got through to them, but it was hard.

But yeah, as if the virus wasn't bad enough, the alternate realities that different groups live in are just being reinforced by the alternate messages given by different sources/politicians/media companies. It's crazy how fragmented people's opinions on the seriousness of this situation, even within healthcare, often based on political persuasion and who a person listens to.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Remember that not all countries are identical. Italy has the second oldest population on Earth, behind Japan. So COVID-19 was always going to be especially bad there, even before they screwed around early and didn't jump on things in time. The more old people in your community, or people with compromised respiratory systems, the worse it'll be.
That is true, but keep in mind that this thing is on an exponential curve. If we wait just a few days longer than Italy to go into full lockdown (i.e., we are 10 days behind them on the curve and we lock down 13-14 days after they do), that will erase any benefit from our younger population.
 
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Sacrosanct

Legend
That is true, but keep in mind that this thing is on an exponential curve. If we wait just a few days longer than Italy to go into full lockdown (i.e., we are 10 days behind them on the curve and we lock down 13-14 days after they do), that will erase any benefit from our younger population.

According to CNN, a Seattle hospital released a memo that unless additional steps are taken, we’re looking at exactly what Italy is going through.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Ah. I think that characterizing that as a "lockdown" is inaccurate.

At the moment, there's a prohibition against gatherings of more than 25 people in MA. But, we can still go to the grocery. We can even got to retails stores, so long as the retailer is observing that limit. My wife (a veterinarian) is still seeing critical care cases. We'll probably go out for a walk later to pay ambulatory mobile games.

We are not "locked down" in any meaningful sense.



Your speculation that they might do a thing does not qualify as them talking about doing it.


Dr Fauci was on with Poppy Harlow this morning and directly asked him about a two month lockdown (in the context of comparing to Italy), and after a brief pause pretty much confirmed that without actually saying the word lockdown. He said "I'd like to see it". Meaning, not policy, but since he's leading the effort, it makes sense it could be. He's not just any doctor. He's on the federal team making policy.

So yeah, they are taking about it.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
Remember that not all countries are identical. Italy has the second oldest population on Earth, behind Japan. So COVID-19 was always going to be especially bad there, even before they screwed around early and didn't jump on things in time. The more old people in your community, or people with compromised respiratory systems, the worse it'll be.

You cannot simply say "this happened to Country A, therefore the same thing will happen to Country B," even if their governmental responses are identical.
It happened in Country A, B and C.

We know what happened in 1918. We know what pandemics and epidemics look like.

1.33^20 is 300x. Every 10 days it gets 17x worse. This is happening everywhere we have numbers for except China, SK, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, etc -- the places that have instituted serious measures.

It doesn't matter if you have 3x the elderly population or 1/3 the elderly population of another country, when that factor of 10 is blown away by 8 days of exponential growth.

Exponential growth is hard to understand. 20 day delay on control vs result is hard to understand. We have both going on here.

20 days after you start changing how it spreads before you can change how many people die or need ICU care.

In 20 days, this gets 50 to 300x bigger.

So when your ICU beds are less than 2% stressed by this (maybe as little as 0.3% stressed), that is when you have to panic, or things get very bad.

What more, 80% of deaths can be prevented with ICU care. So for every death, you need 5 ICU beds, and those beds are in use about 4 weeks to save a life. So for every death per day, you need 5 * 20 = 100 ICU beds treating people. Run out of ICU beds, and anyone who needs one dies instead.

It has been 100 years since the USA was hit with a serious epidemic. Current technology and economic strength is enough to defeat this one, unlike the last one. So you either fight it with your entire economy and people, or you surrender and accept a 1% to 10% death rate.

Every country that has stopped or slowed this has fought it with the entire country's might. Those curves going down where not "oh, the epidemic ran its course", they where the result of massive social distancing and contract tracing and treatment.

This isn't "omg the sky is falling". This is "how much would you pay to save the lives of 3 to 30 million Americans". Surrender is an option. Iran seems to be doing it (and lying about it; the data they publish is pretty transparently faked.)

Surrender, Total War or Pray. Pick. Talk to your politicians; local, regional, national.

All 3 are options. I vote for War.
 
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This weekend was my city's St. Patrick's Day drinking weekend. The official parade had been cancelled, but that didn't stop hordes of people from going out for drinks starting in the AM and continuing until after dark.

Foolhardy indeed. As if COVID-19 wasn't already spreading like wildfire.

This weekend will mark my first attempt at running D&D online. Going to be trying out the Astral platform. Also, a friend of mine that moved away is talking about running a game online with some friends I haven't played with in years.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I suspect, by entering into this conversation so late, I am reiterating some of the points used by people I don't actually agree with, accounting for some of the reactions to my posts.

I do believe in taking this situation very seriously. I just don't think that some of the easy comparison points are necessarily the right ones.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
While everybody is locking down and canceling gatherings of people over as little as 5, this happens in the land of the nopal:


I can't believe how irresponsible this was, local twitter is using #muerelatino to denounce this.


It's not any better in the USA there was a picture of Dallas airport crowded with a kid licking the handrail on Reddit.

Also crowded bars.
 

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