[D&D]"Complete" books: worth it?

[JustKim]

There is nothing in any of the four books a good DM cannot handle. And if one has people in the group that would go out of their way to "break" things then don't blame it on the books.

Defending books by accusing detractors of being bad DMs/players is not cool. Isn't it possible that some of the material just isn't that well thought out?

 

[Graybeard]

I own all four books and (for the most part) like them. There are some things in the books that I do not allow in my game. Some of the PRc's are, in my opinion, stupid and don't fit inot my game world. Others, like the Frenzied Beserker, I allow with modifications. I adjusted the prereqs to get into that class so it was not possible before 10th level. I dicussed it with my players first since one of them wanted to work towards that class. They agreed with the changes. I have a rule that all feats, prestige classes, spells, etc. must be cleared with me first. I think the books are full of really useful stuff if used properly.

 

[Thanee]

I think they are among the most useful D&D 'rulebooks'. Definitely worth it.

CW and CD are a bit weaker, while CA and CV are both very good books.
All of them have at least some borderline broken stuff in them, but that shouldn't be allowed to take away from the fun the rest of them has to offer.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crothian]

Defending books by accusing detractors of being bad DMs/players is not cool. Isn't it possible that some of the material just isn't that well thought out?

Well, the book stays the same no matter who uses it. The only X factors are the players and the DM. And sure some of the stuff isn't the best thought out but again a good DM with time and experince can hadle that.

 

[TheGM]

They're worth it. I don't like a lot of the stuff in them, but that's personal taste - like the Warlock, I think it's a dumb idea, but I know plenty of people who love it...

 

[Connorsrpg]

AS a DM, i wish I had spent my money elsewhere. That is not to say they are bad books - I just wish the players had bought them

I felt, as a whole, that the complete series didn't fit the 'theme' thing. I mean complete warrior wasn't really w worthwhile purchase if you were a wizard, despite each book being for 'every class'. As stated in another thread, I believe the Complete series would have made a better PHB II...but I now see that is on the release schedule mmm

I initially didn't like new core classes, but have eased up on this view. However. Repeating classes WotC had already released disturbs me...especially as they are so different. I mean the samurai springs to mind. It does not read much like a samurai to me at all (OA's = far superior)...could have simply been called 'Two-weapon fighter'. (Did many samurai really fight with two weapons)?

AS far as updates go (I have all the 3.0 splat books too) there are quite a few, but they are dealt with well. Several of the PrC also come from Dragon mags.

So, if a player get them (or at least the one that suits your character). AS a DM..(especially if you already have the 3.0 splat books) let the players get them

 

[VirgilCaine]

I think it conceputally really only clicks if your game world is thick with spellcasters. But the class isn't put together badly.

They can also steal resistances and other magical qualities.

 

[tetsujin28]

So, in what way were the prestige classes from Defenders of the Faith gimped in CD? I seem to recall that being mentioned upthread.

 

[MerricB]

So, in what way were the prestige classes from Defenders of the Faith gimped in CD? I seem to recall that being mentioned upthread.

Here's a brief guide to the changes from DotF -> CD; there are other sources I'll deal with later.

CD prestige classes:

* Black Flame Zealot

* Blighter - MotW
Significant changes:
- prereq: BAB +4 added.
- spellcasting now extends to 9th level spells instead of 6th level
- blightfire instead of burning hands (similar ability, but stronger)
- undead wildshape rewritten to 3.5e standards; loses the ability to go incorporeal
+ Conclusion: 5 or 6 dead levels in druid lead to a much more effective class than the MotW version.

* Church Inquisitor - DotF
Significant changes:
- Requirements are made easier (no longer 8 ranks of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana), instead 4 ranks in Spellcraft, Kn(arc) and Kn(relig)
- Spread out abilities a little more (gains pierce disguise at lvl 4; learn the truth moves from 9th to 10th lvl)
- Skill points from 2 to 4; a better fit for the range of skills required.
- Pierce Illusion is now sight rather than touch and mechanics are simplified.
+ Conclusion: made better

* Consecrated Harrier - DotF
Significant changes:
- Requirements have dropped "Profession Lawyer 5 ranks"
- spell-using now similar to ranger (with some added spells), rather than similar to cleric. 4th level max spells rather than 5th.
- dispel magic ability strengthened
- blessing of scripture (effective ranger "favoured enemy") weakened; max +6 instead of +10
- emotion spell-like ability replaced by crushing despair
- implacable hunt ability strengthened
+ Conclusion: relatively the same. mechanics made more coherent.

* Contemplative - DotF
Significant changes:
- Divine wholeness strengthened
- Divine Soul strengthened
- Mystic Union DR made in line with 3.5e rules (from 20/+1 to 10/magic)
- no prestige domains; just gains bonus domains instead
+ Conclusion: mostly the same, but slightly better

* Divine Crusader

* Divine Oracle - DotF
Significant changes:
- Scry skill requirements gone; instead changed to Knowledge (religion) and ability to cast divine divination spells.
- gains Trap Sense (to +3) instead of to +1
+ Conclusion: mostly the same

* Entropomancer
* Evangelist

* Geomancer - MotW
No Significant changes. (Yes, they updated the class. Yes, they accidently left in Scry in the skills - but fixed the rest. No, I don't think it needed changing).

* Holy Liberator - DotF
Significant changes:
- Sense Motive 5 ranks added to requirements
- Spell list slightly changed (now Paladin + bonus spells instead of separate list)
- loses resist enchantment at 1st level; keeps immunity to charm at 3rd level and now provides aura of resolve (+4 saves vs charm) to allies
- smite evil moved from 2nd to 1st level, may use more than 1/day at high levels.
- loses turn undead
- break enchantment ability instead of subversion; made stronger
- gains remove fatigue
+ Conclusion: made mechanically more coherent and abilities better spread over levels.

* Hospitaler - DotF
Significant changes:
- Prereqs: BAB +5 instead of +4; must be able to cast 1st level divine spells added
- Spell-use now 7/10 instead of 10/10
- loss of Turn Undead ability
- Remove Disease improves to 2/week.
+ Conclusion: thankfully weakened! (Full BAB + d10 HD + full Spellcasting + Turn Undead made it too good for pure clerics)

* Pious Templar - DotF (was Templar)
Significant changes:
- pre-reqs: Know Religion 8->4 ranks; no Endurance, add True Believer
- some moving about of abilities (Weapon Spec from 1st to 3rd), etc.
- abilities better integrated with those of paladin
+ Conclusion: mostly similar.

* Radiant Servant of Pelor
* Rainbow Servant

* Sacred Exorcist - DotF
Significant changes:
- Pre-reqs swapped (now Know planes 10 rnks, relig 7 ranks instead of the other way around)
- Exorcism regular ability instead of prestige domain
- Chosen foe gained slightly later (3rd/6th/9th rather than 1st/4th/7th)
- loses Extra Turning bumps
- gains Holy Aura 1/day at 8th
+ Conclusion: very similar, slightly weaker.

* Sacred Fist - DotF
Significant Changes:
- Pre-reqs: Know Religion 8r (added); feats: Alertness dropped; added Combat Casting + Stunning Fist
- gains spellcasting progression 8/10 instead of paladin-like spell progression
- loses bonus domain
- unarmed damage stacks with monk's rather than using own table
- gains fast movement ability (to +30 ft)
- loses flurry attack, magic unarmed attack, evasion, combat casting, uncanny dodge, blindsight, no shadow blows
- gains sacred flame earlier and may use 2/day at high levels
- gains blindsense 10' (6th)
- inner armour now grants Spell Resistance 25 instead of Spell Resistance 10(!!!)
+ Conclusion: integrated better with monk and cleric, a thorough overhaul

* Seeker of the Misty Isle
* Shining Blade of Heironeous
* Stormlord

* Temple Raider of Olidammara - S&S
Significant Changes:
* Uncanny Dodge (+1 against traps) -> Trap Sense (eventually +4)
* Spell-use loses extra domain spells
* Gains Luck domain at 10th level
* Gains Skill Mastery at 9th level
* Loses Save bonus
+ Conclusion: more in line with other PrC and 3.5e rogue abilities. Minor changes.

* Ur-Priest
* Void Disciple

* Warpriest - DotF
Significant changes:
- Prereq: Diplomacy from 5 to 8 ranks; Leadership dropped
- Hit die d10 from d8
- Gains Turn Undead
- Loses bonus domain at 4th level
- Some abilities moved 1 level
+ Conclusion: very similar.

Cheers!

 

[The Shaman]

Who doesn't like a ton of prestige classes, feats, spells and equipment?

Quite a few people, actually.