D&D General D&D doesn't need Evil

[Maxperson]

The problem is absolutely with alignment, jerks just make the problem worse.

Since you're the one who is claiming a huge problem, I'm sure you can prove it. I'll wait.

 

[Redwizard007]

Yeah. This thing winds up reading like this:

A: X is not strictly required.
B: But I like X.
A: That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that it is not strictly required.
B: But... It is useful!
A: That's fine. That doesn't change the fact that it is not strictly required. You can do without it, and nothing fundamentally breaks.
B: But it is traditional! And many people like using it!
A: That's fine. Still doesn't change the fact that it is not strictly required.
Lather, rinse, repeat.

Really? I'm reading this a lot more like:

A: X is not strictly required.
B: Yeah, the rules expressly say to cherry pick what you want and disregard the rest.
A: But that doesn't mean you need it.
B: No kidding? /s I still use it because it's useful.
A: But the game works fine without it.
B: Yep. We can say that about any rule.
C: babbles in unrelated
A: See. That was a perfect example.
continue indefinitely

How does one prove either side of a subjective argument?

 

[Charlaquin]

Since you're the one who is claiming a huge problem, I'm sure you can prove it. I'll wait.

This very thread illustrates my point. Literally any time the subject of alignment comes up, a huge argument ensues.

 

[Maxperson]

This very thread illustrates my point. Literally any time the subject of alignment comes up, a huge argument ensues.

So I'll take that as a no, you can't prove your claim. And yes, a few people come to threads here with claims based on old mechanics and jerks, but nothing new, all the time. Nobody has offered proof that non-jerk, non-mechanics based alignment problems are a big thing now, though. You are no exception to that.

 

[Fenris-77]

I couldn't care less ab out alignment. That said, I do want some actual evil, some legitimate bad guys doing legitimate bad guy stuff. Why do want that? Because, at least when I'm running that kind of game, I want my players to have the chance to be big damn heroes. That's tougher is a shades of grey everything is relative kind of game. I also like those, quite a lot actually, but for a different gaming experience.

 

[generic]

I couldn't care less ab out alignment. That said, I do want some actual evil, some legitimate bad guys doing legitimate bad guy stuff. Why do want that? Because, at least when I'm running that kind of game, I want my players to have the chance to be big damn heroes. That's tougher is a shades of grey everything is relative kind of game. I also like those, quite a lot actually, but for a different gaming experience.

Totally, it's down to a matter of personal preference IMNSHO.

Sure, some might argue that D&D's default is super-heroic good versus evil fantasy, but you can enjoy a more grim tale using the same rules.

It really comes down to what the players and DM want for the game.

 

[generic]

So I'll take that as a no, you can't prove your claim. And yes, a few people come to threads here with claims based on old mechanics and jerks, but nothing new, all the time. Nobody has offered proof that non-jerk, non-mechanics based alignment problems are a big thing now, though. You are no exception to that.

I think the issue is not so much with alignment but rather with the presentation of certain races and evil, and the two definitely go hand-in-hand.

As for alignment itself, I don't find it problematic at all, but I think it can be argued that it frames moral issues in a rough and undeservedly simplistic light.

 

[Fenris-77]

Well yeah, that's what it says on the tin right? Sometimes that means heroics and saving kittens from trees, and sometimes that means grimdark prying gold teeth from rank corpses. Both are very cool.

 

[Fenris-77]

I should say thaT there's an additional layer here for me. Sometimes, our lives being as grey and hard to account for as they might be, I at least want the option to sometimes run something satisfyingly black and white. That's not what I normally run, but it's sometimes a necessary and awesome palette cleanser. YMMV, of course.

 

[generic]

I should say thaT there's an additional layer here for me. Sometimes, our lives being as grey and hard to account for as they might be, I at least want the option to sometimes run something satisfyingly black and white. That's not what I normally run, but it's sometimes a necessary and awesome palette cleanser. YMMV, of course.

Totally, fantasy is usually an escape for me. I just want to be a Paladin of Justice sometimes, not a Paladin who needs to pay alimony.