D&D General D&D doesn't need Evil

[Maxperson]

In that case, the alignment isn't needed in the first place.

Your logic leaves a lot to be desired. And your one track mind leads you astray. Try opening your mind to the possibility(it's actually a fact) that others don't have the issue with alignment that YOU do and it helps them tremendously.

You showed me one. You kept claiming there was more than one, you never replied with the names of more than one place. Although to be fair, the last time I asked, the thread closed before you could respond.

Nope. Gave you two on multiple occasions.

And the orcs weren't not-evil until they settled down with humans. Before that, they were evil mercenaries. The FR wiki page for Thesk even says "The Orcs decided to settle in the country, becoming "civilized", and the people of Thesk grew to accept them." Where did those orcs come from? They were sent from Zhentil Keep, home of the notoriously evil Zhentarim. And, well, there has been no official writing on Thesk in 20 years, but it would be really interesting to see if any NPC Thesk orcs detailed were good or neutral.

You don't have to be evil to be a mercenary for Zhentil Keep.

 

[Scribe]

But what alignment does do is encourage people to play "always evil" races, and it encourages the game to continue to produce "always evil" races.

So your argument is.

If used as short hand (CE) to describe a 'typical' and 'general' behavior set for a given race, the game is encouraged to create more, and players are encouraged to play them.

Yet, describing the activities or behaviors of a race in a general sense, does not do the same thing?

 

[Redwizard007]

I question the point of games companies say undeath is automatically evil hence my dislike of it.

Might be something about draining the life-force of sentient beings to survive, breaking the laws of nature, and/or creepy freaking vibes.

Edit: ugly double quote

 

[Faolyn]

Your logic leaves a lot to be desired. And your one track mind leads you astray. Try opening your mind to the possibility(it's actually a fact) that others don't have the issue with alignment that YOU do and it helps them tremendously.

I am aware that others don't have issues with alignment. That doesn't mean I agree with them or that I think alignment is useless, or that it even hinders the game by limiting how various races are portrayed without homebrewing.

Nope. Gave you two on multiple occasions.

So name them both.

You don't have to be evil to be a mercenary for Zhentil Keep.

Uh-huh. And all those orcs just happened to be not-evil even though they were mercs for a notoriously evil organization who are "indentured" to evil gods. I think you're really stretching here.

 

[Maxperson]

@Faolyn This is what it says about the orcs in the Unapproachable East.

"The Zhent's came to the aid of Thesk against the Tuigan Horde a dozen years ago. After helping to win the battle against the Horde, the Zhents opted to leave their orc units stationed in Thesk. Over the intervening years, hundreds of other orcs and half-orcs have come to join their fellows in one of the few human nations that has shown the capacity to tolerate their kind."

So no orcs had to be civilized. Other orcs came to live with the humans. Multiple nations in the Forgotten Realms allow orcs. "Few" is more than 2, so at least 3 human nations do so.

And for the umpteenth time, Eberron has non-evil orcs all over the place. It is a another example(beyond the at least 3 above) of orcs that are not evil in 3e.

 

[Maxperson]

I am aware that others don't have issues with alignment. That doesn't mean I agree with them or that I think alignment is useless, or that it even hinders the game by limiting how various races are portrayed without homebrewing.

You don't have to agree with them. Wanting to impose your will on them by removing alignment from the game is pretty bad, though.

Uh-huh. And all those orcs just happened to be not-evil even though they were mercs for a notoriously evil organization who are "indentured" to evil gods. I think you're really stretching here.

No stretch in the slightest. They probably were not good, but neutral mercenaries would have no issue with working for the Zhents or living in Thesk among humans.

 

[Charlaquin]

Have you ever actually had an argument anywhere close to “interminable” about alignment in person?

Yes.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes.

Sounds like the DM didn't try very hard to end that argument, which was probably a mistake. If a discussion threatens to go on more than a minute or two, I shut it down and let the players know that we can discuss it more another time. I don't let it derail the game.

 

[Charlaquin]

As someone else said, the adventure and session will provide most of the context for most NPCs regardless what you put on the statblock.

Beyond that, I know she keeps her word, doesn’t value others’ lives or freedom as a “good” in itself, is willing to work as part of a system/hierarchy, and combining my own life experience with what LE means, she probably has a visceral distaste for liars, and people who break rules, and is completely willing to hurt people for small “infractions” because she believes in the power of negative reinforcement.

Wow, that’s a whole lot of stuff that I guarantee not everyone is going to agree is true of lawful evil characters. Again, ask any 10 people what lawful evil means and you’ll get 12 different answers.

 

[Charlaquin]

Sounds like the DM didn't try very hard to end that argument, which was probably a mistake. If a discussion threatens to go on more than a minute or two, I shut it down and let the players know that we can discuss it more another time. I don't let it derail the game.

I mean, she certainly tried to shut it down.