D&D General D&D Editions: Anybody Else Feel Like They Don't Fit In?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I just watched this and OMFG his part about 5.5 and WotC is like "time to annoy the DM with overpowered heroes!"

WHY?

I look forward to the multi-classed character who can both use a maul and cast Silvery Barbs.

 

[ezo]

I think 12th is the sweet spot, personally, even for 5E, at the maximum.

You have all the second and many third subclass features.
Spells are 6th level or lower.
And much, much more.

It is a level where a party of PCs can still handle most classic powerful BBEGs, but some truly powerful foes (liches and ancient dragons) remain a very, very real threat!

 

[JohnSnow]

I think this bears more discussion to find out why our experiences differed so much on this point. Perhaps I'm just remembering things through rose-coloured glasses LOL!

The discussion of what the "sweet spot" of a skill list looks like is a tricky one.

I was browsing through my Survival Guides the other day, and I had almost forgotten how finicky the skill selections got. Which was REALLY finicky; like fire-building was distinct from herbalism, was distinct from set snares/traps, was distinct from predict weather, etc. level of finicky. 3e's list was a massive move in the right direction. The 5e list is better (although making the distinction re: tool proficiencies is flat-out "weird"), but I still think many low-level adventurers are a little short-handed skill-wise.

I'm still waiting for a great skill system that hits the right midpoint for me. I haven't seen it yet, but I keep hoping.

So the concept that channeling magic was draining/taxing to the caster didn't work? I've never found that too elaborate and a lot of the literature supports the idea that casting spells is fatiguing. Does that mean spell points or any other similar mechanic equally doesn't fit for you?

Mostly yes, that works. Although it's a bit weird that a caster can be "too tired" to throw another 2nd level spell, but still have 3 1sts, a 3rd, 2 4ths, and a 5th. You can rationalize it, but it's awkward and weird.

I also just really like roll to cast systems because it just makes magic feel less reliable and therefore more...magical. YMMV.

The rest of the magic issues are mostly flavor ones. I'd love a system that came with some "set as you like" dials on that stuff.

I'll have to research those things as I'm not familiar with them.


I think the rules in 5E are simple enough, but nearly entirely ineffective! I'd be curious to see what your efforts are on these if you feel like sharing at some point.

Full disclosure: My background is as a longtime gamer who studies and teaches Western Martial Arts and performs it as stage combat. I come at it from the perspective that anything approaching "simulationist realism" is a fool's errand, and have a bias towards creating a system that would be playable yet fun and dramatic. I want combat to feel like it would in a cool action movie, like The Three Musketeers, Pirates of the Caribbean, Raiders of the Lost Ark, or, even Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves.

That's the goal. I'll be happy to share it as it develops.

And now, must run. Plane to catch.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm still waiting for a great skill system that hits the right midpoint for me. I haven't seen it yet, but I keep hoping.

C&C and Shadowdark get it mostly right for me, in that it's "what makes sense for your character to know, based on their race, class and background? Great, those are your skills," although admittedly, my players could never get their heads around this when we played C&C for whatever reason.

 

[overgeeked]

Mostly accurate.

Also no "racial classes," which was one of my earliest gripes with B/X.

Yeah. It was meant as a compliment or a neutral observation. Hopefully it was taken as such.

That being said, I think I've mentioned it before, but I really like DCC's "Deed Dice" and will probably port them over to Shadowdark.

I'll try it with Fighters first, and I'm planning to make them wait until they have a +2 attack bonus (swap for a d4 and try a deed if you want). Any fighter who gets a 3-6 on the Talent table could try for a Deed at Level 1 - but only with their Mastered Weapon. And all fighters could try at Level 2.

Another tweak would be to let a character trade part of their attack bonus from any source for a deed die (+2 for a d4, +3 to get a d6, etc.). But you'd probably want a level-based restriction on the size of the die, and max it out at a d12.

Stunts similar to this are also one way Professor Dungeon Master allows people to use his Deathbringer Dice, so one could let characters use Luck Tokens to trigger martial stunts instead. Must ponder which makes more sense...

If it were up to me I'd just give martial characters a list of example riders (extra effects, deeds, maneuvers, etc) that they can freely apply to any successful attacks. No real need for resource spends or extra die rolls. And explicitly give the player permission to come up with more, a la Mighty Deeds.

 

[Reynard]

See, without knowing more, but at first glance this sort of stuff seems "fiddly" to me...

Just as a data point, in my experience Shadowdark is anything but "fiddly." It certainly doesn't require the level of chart interaction as DCC, and generally runs as smoothly and easily as BECMI with secondary skills allowed. It is intentionally designed for old school dungeon delving, though, and I have found that Dragonbane works better for "hub town.and smaller dungeons" play.

 

[ezo]

Just as a data point, in my experience Shadowdark is anything but "fiddly." It certainly doesn't require the level of chart interaction as DCC, and generally runs as smoothly and easily as BECMI with secondary skills allowed. It is intentionally designed for old school dungeon delving, though, and I have found that Dragonbane works better for "hub town.and smaller dungeons" play.

It wasn't in reference to Shadowdark, but this (which sounded fiddly to me):

That being said, I think I've mentioned it before, but I really like DCC's "Deed Dice" and will probably port them over to Shadowdark.

I'll try it with Fighters first, and I'm planning to make them wait until they have a +2 attack bonus (swap for a d4 and try a deed if you want). Any fighter who gets a 3-6 on the Talent table could try for a Deed at Level 1 - but only with their Mastered Weapon. And all fighters could try at Level 2.

Another tweak would be to let a character trade part of their attack bonus from any source for a deed die (+2 for a d4, +3 to get a d6, etc.). But you'd probably want a level-based restriction on the size of the die, and max it out at a d12.

Stunts similar to this are also one way Professor Dungeon Master allows people to use his Deathbringer Dice, so one could let characters use Luck Tokens to trigger martial stunts instead. Must ponder which makes more sense...

Which is about porting over other concepts into Shadowdark.

 

[haakon1]

It's a matter of taste. Unlimited recasting of certain cantrips

It is indeed a matter of taste. Unlimited magic doesn’t work for me thematically, and I think it wrecks the logistics aspect of the game.

I still view D&D as a partially wargame, as it originally was, and a wargame without logistics isn’t much of a wargame.

 

[mamba]

It is intentionally designed for old school dungeon delving, though, and I have found that Dragonbane works better for "hub town.and smaller dungeons" play.

what gets in the way of that for Shadowdark?

 

[Pandion73]

AI DMs don't get irked with players. Let the kids play whatever they want.