D&D has threatened my job!
- Thread starter d20fool
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Dwarven Godfather
First Post
My experience when I was younger in Missouri!!!
Hey D20fool,
My recommendations from the same experience is if Clinton has a Gaming shop, I highly recommend moving there. It's really good about the environment and would possibly help promote the games as well for the gaming store.
I was 14 years old when I first started gaming and my mom was really worried about the late hours I was out and what I was doing until I invited her to come into the store and see what was going on and started talking to the store owners and other adults and the different games going on especially when I was gone all day Saturday from 10 a.m. until 1 or 2 a.m. in the morning on Sunday. I also talked to her about what she felt about it and she was very proud that I choose gaming over being out with some of my age friends getting drunk and driving as well. In fact, one of the store owners taught me how to drive when I came home from the service and we went up to Gen Con as a group.
So recommend to your younger group and have the parents come and check out the game and let the parents know that it's a good investment for the kids to be gaming. It promotes social skills and helps out in everyday life as well with all the figuring going on in the game.
Hey D20fool,
My recommendations from the same experience is if Clinton has a Gaming shop, I highly recommend moving there. It's really good about the environment and would possibly help promote the games as well for the gaming store.
I was 14 years old when I first started gaming and my mom was really worried about the late hours I was out and what I was doing until I invited her to come into the store and see what was going on and started talking to the store owners and other adults and the different games going on especially when I was gone all day Saturday from 10 a.m. until 1 or 2 a.m. in the morning on Sunday. I also talked to her about what she felt about it and she was very proud that I choose gaming over being out with some of my age friends getting drunk and driving as well. In fact, one of the store owners taught me how to drive when I came home from the service and we went up to Gen Con as a group.
So recommend to your younger group and have the parents come and check out the game and let the parents know that it's a good investment for the kids to be gaming. It promotes social skills and helps out in everyday life as well with all the figuring going on in the game.
tarchon
First Post
I think it might work better if you framed it in terms of a "game club." They must have all sorts of stupid little clubs anyway, right? People understand "club" a lot better than "gaming group." When I was in chess club in HS, that often bled over into various other games, though never quite RPGs.
I agree about the public place though.
Now if you go to tournaments every once in a while, that'll really make it sound scholastic. Competition makes anything sound like a red-blooded American activity.
I agree about the public place though.
Now if you go to tournaments every once in a while, that'll really make it sound scholastic. Competition makes anything sound like a red-blooded American activity.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
I'm no lawyer, nor parent, but I just wanted to echo what I thought was some good advice.
As a teacher in the high school, you should be able to sponsor after-school clubs, right? Just sponsor a Gaming Club at your school, and have it held after classes once a week or so. The fact that, as a club, it'd be announced daily with the other announcements might even draw in other students. The fact that its held in the school should (hopefully) be enough of a public place to dispel some of the suspicion parents may have about the game.
As a teacher in the high school, you should be able to sponsor after-school clubs, right? Just sponsor a Gaming Club at your school, and have it held after classes once a week or so. The fact that, as a club, it'd be announced daily with the other announcements might even draw in other students. The fact that its held in the school should (hopefully) be enough of a public place to dispel some of the suspicion parents may have about the game.
Herremann the Wise
First Post
Hi d20fool,
Just a quick message to sympathise with your situation and wish you all the best, whatever the outcome.
I'm a Maths Tutor in my spare time and tutor in total 8 students of high school level currently. I insist on tutoring at their house at the dining table or somewhere equally "visible" and insist that a parent is somewhere around the house. I never tutor in their bedroom and never ever have tutored a student in my house although it would be far more convenient not driving all around a big city. The reason is very simple. I do not want there to ever be a time where my integrity could be questioned in this regard. People in our position simply cannot afford there to be even 99.99% surety. Only 100% will ever do.
This is unfair that I/We have to take such precautions but such is the world we live in. I think I would have to concur with most people here and suggest that you end the game sessions with these students. However, the damage may already be done if the parents still have a gripe.
Alternatively, you could keep going and just move the sessions to a public place. Maybe better could be playing at a student's house whose parents may be somewhat supportive of your gaming if possible. You will find that if you can have one set of parents stick up for you, it may go a long way.
Anyway, whatever happens best of luck.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Just a quick message to sympathise with your situation and wish you all the best, whatever the outcome.
I'm a Maths Tutor in my spare time and tutor in total 8 students of high school level currently. I insist on tutoring at their house at the dining table or somewhere equally "visible" and insist that a parent is somewhere around the house. I never tutor in their bedroom and never ever have tutored a student in my house although it would be far more convenient not driving all around a big city. The reason is very simple. I do not want there to ever be a time where my integrity could be questioned in this regard. People in our position simply cannot afford there to be even 99.99% surety. Only 100% will ever do.
This is unfair that I/We have to take such precautions but such is the world we live in. I think I would have to concur with most people here and suggest that you end the game sessions with these students. However, the damage may already be done if the parents still have a gripe.
Alternatively, you could keep going and just move the sessions to a public place. Maybe better could be playing at a student's house whose parents may be somewhat supportive of your gaming if possible. You will find that if you can have one set of parents stick up for you, it may go a long way.
Anyway, whatever happens best of luck.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
My credentials: I'm an attorney. I used to live in Manhattan KS, so I understand the small-town mentality somewhat. I have run RPGs with mixed age groups, including minors, and I used to run a game club at my private Catholic highschool.
1) From the CYA aspect, you cannot go wrong by kicking the kids out of the group. It sucks, I know, but its true. Small towns by their very natures tend to be more religious & more conservative than more metropolitan areas. You may find yourself in a battle you can't win if the religious right think you're corrupting the youth. You may find yourself the modern model of a Missourian Socrates.
That said, if you are willing to continue risking your job (I salute you if you do):
2) You may try getting the group to run on school grounds immediately after school as an extracurricular event. That MAY shield you somewhat. To do so, you will either need permission slips or a student sponsor (to nominally head the group) depending on school rules. Heck, getting permission slips is a good idea at any rate.
3) Gaming in a public place will do much the same. Pizza places are best- they tend to have good hours, lots of space, and don't mind rowdy groups. Game stores are a good second place, but probably close pretty early, relative to a pizza parlor.
4) See if one of your gamers' parents is willing to host the campaign. When (on a Summer break from Law School) I taught some young teens (14 year olds) how to play D&D for the first time, I did it at my parents' house, and I had known one kid since birth. But the fact that there were other adults around assuaged the concerns of the other parents.
5) You may wish to alter your campaign somewhat. I don't know how old your gamers are, but consider using your campaign as a teaching aid. How? Talk to your history colleages about famous battles (like Thermopylae, Agincourt or Gettysburgh) and important events, or even look at some of the great books of literature (like the Illiad) and alter them to fit your campaign. When somebody asks you what you're doing, you'll be able to point out that you are putting those students into historical/literary immersive environments...especially if you include a reveal in your adventure wrap-ups. By that I mean, you not only award XP, but tell your players what was behind the adventure, and how their actions compared to the real/literary events.
6) Whatever you do, keep your campaign under tight control. No evil PCs, not too racy, etc. And I mean that even if you are forced to kick the kids out! Since you teach 5th graders, anything in your campaign that smacks of the dark side may result in your getting canned as a bad influence.
1) From the CYA aspect, you cannot go wrong by kicking the kids out of the group. It sucks, I know, but its true. Small towns by their very natures tend to be more religious & more conservative than more metropolitan areas. You may find yourself in a battle you can't win if the religious right think you're corrupting the youth. You may find yourself the modern model of a Missourian Socrates.
That said, if you are willing to continue risking your job (I salute you if you do):
2) You may try getting the group to run on school grounds immediately after school as an extracurricular event. That MAY shield you somewhat. To do so, you will either need permission slips or a student sponsor (to nominally head the group) depending on school rules. Heck, getting permission slips is a good idea at any rate.
3) Gaming in a public place will do much the same. Pizza places are best- they tend to have good hours, lots of space, and don't mind rowdy groups. Game stores are a good second place, but probably close pretty early, relative to a pizza parlor.
4) See if one of your gamers' parents is willing to host the campaign. When (on a Summer break from Law School) I taught some young teens (14 year olds) how to play D&D for the first time, I did it at my parents' house, and I had known one kid since birth. But the fact that there were other adults around assuaged the concerns of the other parents.
5) You may wish to alter your campaign somewhat. I don't know how old your gamers are, but consider using your campaign as a teaching aid. How? Talk to your history colleages about famous battles (like Thermopylae, Agincourt or Gettysburgh) and important events, or even look at some of the great books of literature (like the Illiad) and alter them to fit your campaign. When somebody asks you what you're doing, you'll be able to point out that you are putting those students into historical/literary immersive environments...especially if you include a reveal in your adventure wrap-ups. By that I mean, you not only award XP, but tell your players what was behind the adventure, and how their actions compared to the real/literary events.
6) Whatever you do, keep your campaign under tight control. No evil PCs, not too racy, etc. And I mean that even if you are forced to kick the kids out! Since you teach 5th graders, anything in your campaign that smacks of the dark side may result in your getting canned as a bad influence.
hero4hire
Explorer
<sigh> Overall this saddens me. The current state of affairs in this country and the still bad rep D+D gets.
I've been playing D+D since I was 7. My mom and her boyfriend bought those little pamphlets (Eldritch Wizardry, Blackmoor, etc.) They lost interest but I never did. My first actual gaming group and some of my fondest gaming memories was when I got to jr. high school. We had a D+D Club right in school ran by my English teacher Mr. Kirnie. We even had our picture in the yearbook. This was before the BIG D+D scare of course and such things got Universally banned.
D+D inspired me to read and look up words that I never would have seen or used otherwise. Introduced me to other religions, cultures, mythology. Got me interested in history, storytelling, performance arts, classical music. All of this might not be a big deal to some, but to a poor kid in a bad neighborhood. Well I may not have been exposed to those things otherwise. Also perhaps most important to me, it introduced me to concepts of honor, chivalry, and heroism. 28 years later I am a reasonably well adjusted guy, a father, the head of security of a 4 star hotel.
Now as a parent (of a now 7 year old) I had to take into consideration what level of exposure I gave my daughter to D+D. Gaming is fun and like all fun things can be highly addictive. D+D is also escapism. This combination can be dangerous to young minds. Addictive escapism...
Overall I didn't want D+D to be daddy's dirty little secret so I expose her and tell her about D+D and all things Fantasy. But I dont want her to play with me..."Why?" You might ask. "You played when you were 7."
Yep I did..Those were different times gentle reader..As a 7 year old I could also walk around and play unsupervised. Something I would never let my daughter do.
D+D was also a different game back then. Almost comparable to how video games were much simpler back then. Overall she is also a much different kid then I was.
Now the kids you are playing with are local high school kids. Still minors but probably mature enough. Get parental permission, play in a public forum. That covers your @$$. As a teacher you do bear an added burden of being a role model to the community. You being the responsible supervising adult have to make sure your games are age appropriate and maybe even teach the kids a thing or two.
The only way to stop D+D from being a weird, mysterious unknown, is to bring it back into the light of day!
I've been playing D+D since I was 7. My mom and her boyfriend bought those little pamphlets (Eldritch Wizardry, Blackmoor, etc.) They lost interest but I never did. My first actual gaming group and some of my fondest gaming memories was when I got to jr. high school. We had a D+D Club right in school ran by my English teacher Mr. Kirnie. We even had our picture in the yearbook. This was before the BIG D+D scare of course and such things got Universally banned.
D+D inspired me to read and look up words that I never would have seen or used otherwise. Introduced me to other religions, cultures, mythology. Got me interested in history, storytelling, performance arts, classical music. All of this might not be a big deal to some, but to a poor kid in a bad neighborhood. Well I may not have been exposed to those things otherwise. Also perhaps most important to me, it introduced me to concepts of honor, chivalry, and heroism. 28 years later I am a reasonably well adjusted guy, a father, the head of security of a 4 star hotel.
Now as a parent (of a now 7 year old) I had to take into consideration what level of exposure I gave my daughter to D+D. Gaming is fun and like all fun things can be highly addictive. D+D is also escapism. This combination can be dangerous to young minds. Addictive escapism...
Overall I didn't want D+D to be daddy's dirty little secret so I expose her and tell her about D+D and all things Fantasy. But I dont want her to play with me..."Why?" You might ask. "You played when you were 7."
Yep I did..Those were different times gentle reader..As a 7 year old I could also walk around and play unsupervised. Something I would never let my daughter do.
D+D was also a different game back then. Almost comparable to how video games were much simpler back then. Overall she is also a much different kid then I was.
Now the kids you are playing with are local high school kids. Still minors but probably mature enough. Get parental permission, play in a public forum. That covers your @$$. As a teacher you do bear an added burden of being a role model to the community. You being the responsible supervising adult have to make sure your games are age appropriate and maybe even teach the kids a thing or two.
The only way to stop D+D from being a weird, mysterious unknown, is to bring it back into the light of day!
Guilt Puppy
First Post
I hate to say it, but if I were you, I'd ban minors from my gaming group as quickly and quietly as possible. If that meant I couldn't have a gaming group, so be it. There's always PbP, you know?
I know, it's not right or fair or anything like that, but sometimes pragmatism just has to prevail. If anyone files a formal complaint (and it sounds inevitable at this point, IMO), then you'll have a tough time keeping your career. Very sad, but very true. I won't repeat what you already know and what people have already said about the ongoing witchhunt against teachers -- President Clinton had an easier time maintaining his privacy than most schoolteachers do.
Anyway, I'm all for taking a stand against injustice, but I wouldn't choose this one. People don't understand gaming well enough for it to be understood as a "stand," for one thing. For another, what's at stake (a hobby) versus what's at risk (a career) just isn't enough -- I've been without a RL gaming group for a while now (mainly because I can't hold down a job, place of residence, etc...
)... There are other options (I'm a massive fan of PbP myself, though it's hardly to everyone's taste), and even if none of them fit you, well... I'm assuming the being a teacher is far more important to you.
In short, let it go. It's not right, but it's not worth fighting over. Of course, that's just my opinion & judgment... If you choose to keep going, well, I respect your courage, and definitely wish you the best.
I know, it's not right or fair or anything like that, but sometimes pragmatism just has to prevail. If anyone files a formal complaint (and it sounds inevitable at this point, IMO), then you'll have a tough time keeping your career. Very sad, but very true. I won't repeat what you already know and what people have already said about the ongoing witchhunt against teachers -- President Clinton had an easier time maintaining his privacy than most schoolteachers do.
Anyway, I'm all for taking a stand against injustice, but I wouldn't choose this one. People don't understand gaming well enough for it to be understood as a "stand," for one thing. For another, what's at stake (a hobby) versus what's at risk (a career) just isn't enough -- I've been without a RL gaming group for a while now (mainly because I can't hold down a job, place of residence, etc...
)... There are other options (I'm a massive fan of PbP myself, though it's hardly to everyone's taste), and even if none of them fit you, well... I'm assuming the being a teacher is far more important to you.In short, let it go. It's not right, but it's not worth fighting over. Of course, that's just my opinion & judgment... If you choose to keep going, well, I respect your courage, and definitely wish you the best.
Host of Angels
First Post
It saddens me to read this thread, for several ways. Firstly, that a society can live in such fear of itself that we are too scared to have fun. And secondly, while Britain (where I live) does suffer from the anti D&D lobby as the USA does, I can see things going this way here too. I am part of a gaming club in Leeds and as yet we have had no underage gamers join - but this thread has made me stop and think what we would do if a teenager wanted to join....
Anyhow - d20 Fool - good luck. I hope you manage to sort something out and do something positive for your community by making it work.
Anyhow - d20 Fool - good luck. I hope you manage to sort something out and do something positive for your community by making it work.
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