D&D is Back!

[Tamvriel]

You've almost got it. Now try saying it without insulting anyone.

How is what I said insulting anyone, in either post...

expressing an oppinion in a calm, but yes, pessimistic way is not the same as attempting start a forest fire, sir.

If people are getting offended because I am expressing my oppinion about a subject that is close to heart, without slandering ANYONE, or calling any SPECIFIC person less intelligent, then there is no way in which I could express oppinions without someone having their feelings hurt.

So again if I hurt your feelings or something, or offended your since of loyalty to WoTC then I am sorry Fifth Element. I will stop trying to give oppinions where they are not wanted.

 

[Agamon]

I likey. I feel excited to play D&D again for the first time in a while (for a while , it was just happy to get together with friends, D&D wasn't really much fun anymore; the last 4 months of it, in fact, sucked royally).

I don't really like the term "dumbed down", what does that mean? Are people dumb because they like True 20 or C&C or TriStat or any other simple mechanic games? There's a reason simple mechanic games have a following.

Of course, 4e is nothing like those games. Sure it has an easy to learn foundation rooted in d20, but it is very exception based, kicking tactics up more than a couple notches. This game will frustrate those of minimal IQ, I think.

And while my players will enjoy that aspect of it (and being a board gamer, I sure don't mind it myself), I like how easy they made for the DM to be creative, with setting, magic, monsters. Now that's what I'm talking about. 3e's been oppressively weighing on me for years, I haven't created anything of my own since I ended my homebrew in '04, it was just too taxing with that system so I went with adventure path type games. 3 years of that drudgery is now weighing on me, too. Can't wait to get started the new homebrew!

 

[jmucchiello]

How is what I said insulting anyone, in either post...

expressing an oppinion in a calm, but yes, pessimistic way is not the same as attempting start a forest fire, sir.

What you don't understand is ENWorld mods make Smokey the Bear look like chain smoker with a leaky lighter and a penchant for putting out his cigs in the butane puddles. Mods here throw folks out of threads for making embers. Flames just don't happen here.

If people are getting offended because I am expressing my oppinion about a subject that is close to heart, without slandering ANYONE, or calling any SPECIFIC person less intelligent, then there is no way in which I could express oppinions without someone having their feelings hurt.

By saying the rules are stupified, you are calling anyone who defends those rules stupid. Calling the rules simplified, lacking complexity, etc is an opinion. Calling the rules stupid is an insult. At a very minumum, you are calling the designers stupid.

So again if I hurt your feelings or something, or offended your since of loyalty to WoTC then I am sorry Fifth Element.

Presuming that another poster is some kind of fanboy is also insulting.

On Topic: I understand the feeling of 4e being more of a throwback to 1e. Classes are more delineated compared to 3e where classes just felt like bundles of abilities. Classes feel like in-game constructs again.

 

[Fifth Element]

How is what I said insulting anyone, in either post...

"Stupify". If you say they dumb down the rules, then you imply that anyone who likes them is dumb. And there are many people here who like the new rules.

So again if I hurt your feelings or something, or offended your since of loyalty to WoTC then I am sorry Fifth Element. I will stop trying to give oppinions where they are not wanted.

Nope, didn't hurt my feelings. But you implied that some other people's opinions are dumb (ie, those that like the new rules). That's the problem. You can express your opinion without denigrating others' opinions. Opinions are wanted here. Insults are not.

And implying that I am posting out of loyalty to WotC is also a no-no. Discuss the posts, not what you perceive to be the poster's motives.

 

[Fifth Element]

Calling the rules stupid is an insult. At a very minumum, you are calling the designers stupid.

Good point. And several of the designers are ENWorld members. Calling ENWorld members stupid is not acceptable.

ENWorld is a rarity among internet messageboards. Knee-jerk reactions and insults are not expected behaviour. If you disagree with a post, express your disagreement politely, without insult.

 

[Fifth Element]

On Topic: I understand the feeling of 4e being more of a throwback to 1e. Classes are more delineated compared to 3e where classes just felt like bundles of abilities. Classes feel like in-game constructs again.

I agree, though I'm having a difficult time describing exactly why I feel that way. Mechanically the game is more like 3E, but it feels more like 1E in many ways.

 

[d10]

I wholeheartedly agree. My biggest problem with 3e was that it was too bogged down by numbers, and obscure rules. It bogged down combat, it bogged down NPC interaction when rolls were needed. But the biggest strike against it was that I HATED DMing it.

4e eliminates all of those problems for me, and for the first time the monsters look like alot fun beyond just their flavor text. I'm temped to just play Monster VS. Monster with a friend when I can't run a full on D&D game. 4e is really quite refrshing in that respect.

 

[evildm]

I agree, though I'm having a difficult time describing exactly why I feel that way. Mechanically the game is more like 3E, but it feels more like 1E in many ways.

I think it feels like 1e because the attitude in the books is alot more freewheeling, so to speak. In 3e if you wanted to houserule something, you needed to make sure that the whole system didn't collapse. Having just been reading the new DMG, I get the distinct impression that it's very much the opposite. It seems to encourage alot of "fudging it". Need a particular monster? Just change a few numbers to whatever you feel is needed and change it's name and description and you're good to go. I really like that.

3e had a feel much like alot of vehicle design rules in older RPGs like Mekton. Need a new monster? Get out the calculator and the pile of books and get cracking. This was great when I was a system junkie at the outset of 3e and I didn't have to spend most of my time working, but not so much these days.

 

[Scribble]

I think it feels like 1e because the attitude in the books is alot more freewheeling, so to speak. In 3e if you wanted to houserule something, you needed to make sure that the whole system didn't collapse. Having just been reading the new DMG, I get the distinct impression that it's very much the opposite. It seems to encourage alot of "fudging it". Need a particular monster? Just change a few numbers to whatever you feel is needed and change it's name and description and you're good to go. I really like that.

3e had a feel much like alot of vehicle design rules in older RPGs like Mekton. Need a new monster? Get out the calculator and the pile of books and get cracking. This was great when I was a system junkie at the outset of 3e and I didn't have to spend most of my time working, but not so much these days.

Thats what I'm saying...

It has the freewheeling nature of earlier editions, but the 3e concept of a solid core mechanic to fall back on to keep things smooth...

3e took things to far. They had the core mechanic, but tried to build EVERYTHING they could into the rules.

4e gives you the stuff you will most likely need, but then gives you a guide to how that stuff was built, so if you need to wing it, you can keep it consistent.

 

[Fifth Element]

I think it feels like 1e because the attitude in the books is alot more freewheeling, so to speak. In 3e if you wanted to houserule something, you needed to make sure that the whole system didn't collapse. Having just been reading the new DMG, I get the distinct impression that it's very much the opposite. It seems to encourage alot of "fudging it". Need a particular monster? Just change a few numbers to whatever you feel is needed and change it's name and description and you're good to go. I really like that.

I think that captures it pretty well. Thanks.