D&D is not a supers game.

[MerricB]

I mean, how common was it to play a single-classed AD&D fighter without a plus to damage?

Depends how much you cheat. +1 to damage is pretty common, but more than that is unusual. (Of course, if you *do* have an 18 strength as a fighter, it goes up pretty quickly).

That said, the fighter with a longsword in AD&D without UA does 1d12 damage against said ogre, or 3d6 with a 2-handed sword.

 

[Hussar]

That's because Conan has script immunity. Ask many of his adventuring comrades the same question and you'll get a lot of "No answer. He's dead."

In any case, I'm done trying to convert anyone, and I hope most of us have got it out of our systems.

That's not necessarily true though. Aside from various Red Shirts, most of Conan's companions survive as well. Some die, sure, but, lots don't.

 

[Bedrockgames]

All this bickering about conan is pointless when everyone knows superman would whip him in a real fight

 

[Campbell]

Just played another session of #dndnext and one thing I noticed was that an ogre's max damage was less than a 1st level dwarven fighters max damage. The same ogre has a LOT more health (80something) while the fighter was much lower.

Something on this scale is out of wack. I lean towards thinking that the fighter does to much damage and the fighter and ogre have to much health.

I actually think it's kind of appropriate. Ogres are tough. There's a lot of meat to them, but while they might be strong they are not particularly skilled. The ogre swings his club around without much precision. He'll probably wallop you, but he doesn't care where he hits you. On the other hand the fighter is a trained killer. He knows where he needs to strike and goes for the jugular at every opportunity. Also the ogre is not that much stronger than the fighter.

 

[Argyle King]

I dunno.

How often does Conan die?

I'd say 4e combat is far, far more lethal to the protagonists than Conan combat is.

True, but Conan also has plot protection by virtue of being the main character of the book series. It's kind of hard to have a Conan story if there's no Conan.

However, Conan most certainly does get seriously hurt and/or injured, and he is on death's door in multiple stories. He has even been captured and/or tortured. I remember one story in particular in which he nearly died from being poisoned; only surviving because of divine intervention.

Look at the world around Conan. The difference between life or death for most characters in his world is often one (maybe two) well placed attacks. What's the probability of a 4E character having his skull split by an axe? Likewise, injury and wounds (HP loss) matter in Conan. Characters don't have the same effectiveness after some injury as they do when at full health.

I'd also say that Conan stories do not feature what D&D calls AC; to me, I'd say there are active defenses going on. Things such as parrying, blocking, and dodging out of the way (again, in my opinion) are much better fits for the style of story than AC. I feel that combat in Howard's stories -not just Conan, but Kull and Bran Mak Morn as well- is fluid and dynamic. There are actions and reactions happening quite often.

 

[Celestian]

It's the same in AD&D.

A standard ogre's maximum damage is 10. A dwarven fighter with exceptional STR and or weapon specialization from Unearthed Arcana can get well over 10 (16, I think: 8 max battle axe + 5 from a 18/91-99 STR + 3 from double-specialization).

A dwarven fighter with any static positive damage modifier will have a higher mean, and usually higher average, damage output than the ogre.

I mean, how common was it to play a single-classed AD&D fighter without a plus to damage?

I always gave my ogres the bonuses from 18/00 (AD&D). Maybe I was in the minority? I seem to recall it being in modules that way as well (for some at least).

It just seemed a bit off. Give the fighter 18 strength and it will be even more skewed.

The fight with the ogre seemed to be... non-threatening to us. In AD&D if a ogre got a good hit off at a level 1 character he could out right kill you. Specially non-fighters.

 

[nogray]

So you're saying for the game to work correctly I need to purchase more books... and disregard the books I initially bought. That sucks. To answer your question I was, until recently, using any monster in the online Adventure Tools... are they updated to the new specs? If not I don't see why I would have to go out and buy more books to get the game to the corrected point for combats.

I happily use any of the monsters in the Adventure Tools. However, if it is something not in one of the Monster Vaults, MM3, or the Dark Sun Creature Catalog, I check the math before I print it, editing where needed. I also freely update elites and solos with more modern traits to better avoid stunlocks and whatnot.

The resource I use for checking the math is at Blog of Holding. (What I actually do is, at the bottom of my level notes for a given adventure, have the appropriate values pre-calculated and written in so I can just sub in appropriate values.) It also works great for winging monsters. I have DMed enough 4e that I can improvise traits and effects on powers well enough to keep things interesting.

I hope that helps, in some small way.

 

[pemerton]

I'd argue that Conan's world doesn't use D&D style hitpoints.

<snip>

Conan's world is more deadly than the typical D&D campaign as presented by today's version of the game.

I dunno.

How often does Conan die?

True, but Conan also has plot protection by virtue of being the main character of the book series.

That's because Conan has script immunity. Ask many of his adventuring comrades the same question and you'll get a lot of "No answer. He's dead."

Given how often Conan (and the pulp sword and sorcery tradition more generally) is cited as the inspiration for D&D, it would be odd if D&D in fact couldn't do Conan. (That's not an argument, obviously. Just an observation.)

If I wanted to run something Conan-esque in 4e, I would overwhelmingly use minions. And I would be prepared to narrate mechanical hits as fictional misses. I started a thread about this a while ago. From "The Phoenix on the Sword":

The king took Ascalante's point in his left arm, and the outlaw barely saved his life by ducking and springing backward from the swinging ax. . . .

Ascalante leaped like a wolf, halted almost in midair with incredible quickness and fell prostrate to avoid the death which was hissing toward him. He frantically whirled his feet out of the way and rolled clear as Conan recovered from his missed blow and struck again. This time the ax sank inches deep into the polished floor close to Ascalante's revolving legs.​

Clearly when Conan is stabbed by Ascalante, he has (in D&D terms) been hit and suffered hit point loss (perhaps he's been bloodied). But what about when Ascalante ducks and springs backward, then falls prostrate, and then whirls his feet out of the way? To get Conanesque 4e, you have to narrate that as hit point loss. Hit points become almost pure "plot protection." (Except perhaps for giant slugs and the like.)

Most NPCs and monsters would be minions, though, and so have no hit points - reflecting the fact that Conan has a better than 50% chance to cleave their skulls on an attack!

Conan most certainly does get seriously hurt and/or injured, and he is on death's door in multiple stories.

<snip>

I'd also say that Conan stories do not feature what D&D calls AC; to me, I'd say there are active defenses going on. Things such as parrying, blocking, and dodging out of the way (again, in my opinion) are much better fits for the style of story than AC. I feel that combat in Howard's stories -not just Conan, but Kull and Bran Mak Morn as well- is fluid and dynamic. There are actions and reactions happening quite often.

The dynamism and active defence I would do via liberal use of out-of-turn powers (like the duelist in Dark Sun, or the various ranger powers that allow a shift in response to being hit).

The permanent injury can't be done in by-the-book 4e. You would need to introduce conditions of some sort triggered by skill challenge failures, as a result of being dropped to 0 hp, etc.

 

[jadrax]

Given how often Conan (and the pulp sword and sorcery tradition more generally) is cited as the inspiration for D&D, it would be odd if D&D in fact couldn't do Conan. (That's not an argument, obviously. Just an observation.)

Roleplaying Games cant do any books*, period.


*or TV series, or Films, or anything else that's not an RPG.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Most NPCs and monsters would be minions, though, and so have no hit points - reflecting the fact that Conan has a better than 50% chance to cleave their skulls on an attack!

I don't think people like to have the rules of fiction spelled out in this way. They want to believe that the fictional world might be real, to see it thru the eyes of its inhabitants.

To be an author is, in a way, to have fiction ruined for you because you can see all the techniques.