D&D 5E [D&D Next] Second Packet - initial impressions

[pemerton]

The main thing I notice is that there is still no interaction pillar. For an edition that was meant to be balanced around 3 pillars of play, there is a lot of focus on combat mechanics!

 

[I'm A Banana]

No reason we can't have one thread about this....

Mod Powers, Activate! MURGE!

 

[ExploderWizard]

I react so negatively to rolling for ability scores (and hit dice for the same reason) that its hard to even summarize.

Its like people who drive 45 miles per hour on a 65 mile per hour interstate, for no reason except that they feel like it. Their decisions affect other people in a small but negative way. They, for trivial reasons, have chosen to make other people's lives just a tiny bit worse. The sheer banality of it makes it a moral issue.

WOTC is choosing to make the lives of children worse for almost no reason. Adults who have been gaming for a while will know to choose the ability score generation system that they like the most. But having rolling for ability scores be the "core" method makes people say the game "feels like D&D," so rolling is listed as the primary method.

That means it will be the method used by new, younger players. They'll roll ability scores, invariably some characters will be way better than others due to these die rolls, and someone's first character, the one with a ridiculous name and corny abilities that they believe to be TOTALLY AWESOME because that's what you're like at age 12... will be an utter bust. Because of this. A child life will be, in a small but noticeable way, worse. Thanks.

[ON-Morgan Freeman]

Every six hours, a child rolls up a suboptimal character for a roleplaying game. These poor children have to contend with playing with what fate has dealt them in a fictional environment. With help and support we can provide these unfortunate souls decent arrays with which to build their little optimized monsters.

Please give generously to DAFY (Decent Arrays For Youngsters). A first level character is a terrible thing to waste.

[OFF-Morgan Freeman]

 

[Ahnehnois]

If I've understood [MENTION=40961]Cadfan[/MENTION] right, he's envisaging a kid wanting to play the game in "heroic" style - your PC is your avatar in an exploration of a heroic fantasy world - being stuck with a "Gygaxian" stat generation method: PCs are essentially disposable, and you go through a stable of them until you get one that survives (perhaps because it got lucky on stat rolls).

That's not about learning the virtues of adversity (and I question whether games are even the place to learn this). It's about the game not being suited to deliver what the kid expects from it.

I guess the reaction, as I understand it, is that this expectation is very specific, usually arises from people who've played a while, and is not an attitude that the rules need to go out of their way to nurture. It also seems like a grave misunderstanding of kids (I think most of ENW is a long, long way from childhood), who are very resilient and open-minded and are unlikely to complain that their character is not good enough even if this is actually true.

I also think that the ability of the game to handle differing ability arrays is important. If a game falls apart if you don't use point buy, it is hardly balanced then is it?

FWIW I would have presented rolling and a simple point buy in the playtest.

 

[B.T.]

This looks a lot more like D&D than the last playtest did. It's also a lot more polished. I'm liking it so far, especially the backgrounds.

Is this what hope feels like?

 

[Li Shenron]

If I've understood [MENTION=40961]Cadfan[/MENTION] right, he's envisaging a kid wanting to play the game in "heroic" style - your PC is your avatar in an exploration of a heroic fantasy world - being stuck with a "Gygaxian" stat generation method: PCs are essentially disposable, and you go through a stable of them until you get one that survives (perhaps because it got lucky on stat rolls).

That's not about learning the virtues of adversity (and I question whether games are even the place to learn this). It's about the game not being suited to deliver what the kid expects from it.

I would understand if Gygaxian as "roll six times 3d6, in that order".

4d6-drop-lowest + rearrange freely + bonus from class + bonus from race + bonuses every 4 levels does not yield "disposable" characters.

If I see a kid whining about that, I would personally smack him with a wand of wonder.

 

[Mallus]

... being stuck with a "Gygaxian" stat generation method: PCs are essentially disposable, and you go through a stable of them until you get one that survives (perhaps because it got lucky on stat rolls).

The prevalence of low stats in the Gygax era has been greatly exaggerated. Take a look at the pregens included in the classic modules -- I just took a gander at "Slave Pits of the Undercity" where 18's abound, and the lowest CON is 15 -- and you'll find a much different set of practical expectations re: character stats.

Besides, every group I knew in the 1980s used partially random stat generation, ie if you rolled terribly you either got a free high stat or simply rolled again.

And even back then, it wasn't about wasting a 1st level character, it was about wasting the player's time, which is an even bigger consideration for us now, now that so many of us gamers are middle aged!

 

[EvilDwarf]

Sorry if I'm INT 3 this morning, but are we missing half the xp table? The text mentions up to level 10 but I only see numbers to 5??

 

[Viking Bastard]

I don't like the rollback on skills. I was intrigued by the static +5 instead of adding a ability modifier, which they were thinking about there for a while, but now it's basically the same as 3e/4e.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

My initial thoughts were fro my 7 year old, who played a PF Basic Box Wizard and hated that he was just a crossbowman, and not a good one at that! Now you can still contribute, like 4E, once your dailies are gone or you do not wish to use them.

Just thought I would let you know that "cantrips" in Pathfinder are at will.

Not sure why anyone needs to switch to a crossbow when you have unlimited cantrips.