D&D 5E D&D Unboxing Starter Set Video is on Youtube

[thalmin]

You don't see a problem with fighters not expending their hit dice to heal but every other class does?

Really? Like, you don't foresee party rhythm issues this causes because of the pressure to take more rests because it saves the fighter's hit dice pool, but doesn't save it for anyone else? It would be like one person in a group having ten surges per day and the others having four, but the guy with ten doesn't even need them most of the time because they have their own surgeless healing, to use 4e-isms.

Right, I don't. I think the fighter will use the HD like everyone else. What is the fighter saving his hit dice pool for, anyway? Mileage points?

It's really funny that a mechanic lifted straight out of 4th edition would be designed to not even use the new edition's equivalent of healing surges. Wow, just wow. It's dawning on me how bad this is, I totally agree with Kamikaze.

This is what you get for designing the game only by raw playtest feedback. People out there are not game designers, their feedback should be taken in consideration with that in mind. Design by committee often leads to problems like this.

I repeat. For many of us, this won't be an issue. There is no problem with the design. For those that want to make it a problem, it's their game, too. YMMV, and I guess it does.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

I may be wrong, but what I'm getting out of this discussion is that they finally and absolutely fixed the linear fighter problem.

Put me in the "this is a table issue" camp. I don't think it will ever show as a problem at my table, the way my players game.

 

[Zaukrie]

Remember when this thread was a fun discussion that wasn't already in eight other threads? It was about a cool new product being opened?

 

[The Hitcher]

People out there are not game designers, their feedback should be taken in consideration with that in mind.

This is probably the most insightful thing you've ever said, and is the exact attitude I take when approaching the chittering of armchair designers on messageboards.

The mechanic is only broken if you play specifically to exploit the system AND you have extreme neuroses about particular types of "balance" being specially important. For me, it is a feature rather than a bug, because it speaks to a game design aimed at humans who like to have fun, rather than robots who enjoy searching out flaws in equations. Perhaps this is exclusionary to a degree, but I think it will lead to a more enjoyable game and a more enjoyable community.

And there's nothing stopping you guys from going and house-ruling it all into rules-lawyer oblivion. Why not just do that, instead of making a public spectacle?

 

[thalmin]

Remember when this thread was a fun discussion that wasn't already in eight other threads? It was about a cool new product being opened?

You are right. My apologies.

I like how they pointed out the rulebook will be useful as a quick reference around the table even after the PHB is available. That reinforces the idea that there are no rules that will be changed between the Starter and the PHB.

 

[jrowland]

Mearls is exactly correct. This is a table issue, not a rules issue. If your group wants to play with the silliness of taking several short rests in a row to spam second winds, then more power to ya. Have fun with that game. There is no need to prevent you from doing this through the rules if that's what you find fun.

Exactly. Thought experiment:

Lets say we are playing a module but the module omits some line about monsters filling in rooms PCs have cleared, or intelligent foes setting up watches/traps for returning PCs. Then PCs do some damage to dungeon population then leave to rest. RAW nothing changes in the dungeon and the PCs can go in full strength, blowing their powers, rinse and repeat. Most DMs wouldn't just let that be, and the few that do, so what? if its fun for the table, its not our place to criticize the fun, the module, Players, DM, etc.

If a fighter decides, mid-dungeon, to go rest in 1 hour increments to get full hp back, I fail to see how this is any different from the party going to rest for 8 hours (or less) to get full hp back. Yeah, maybe at 1st - 3rd level this means only a couple of hours for the fighter. So what? How many of you DMs have added a Potion of Healing or two in treasure for the sole purpose of keeping the party in fighting shape so they can keep going? Not much different, really.

Gritty, realistic, lasting wounds is a DMG "module", where it should be.

At low levels, if a fighter can shrug off what amounts to a big hit (1d10+level) 1 per hour, I fail to see the problem. The wedge case where a low level fighter takes a hit, then rests for an hour, then takes another hit, then rests for an hour, etc. is so contrived as to be meaningless. I don't think that particular sequence of events can happen organically. A lot of other Players at the table, and the DM have to be willfully making that happen in the game narrative to get to a point where SW seems broken. At higher levels, fighter is better off just taking a long rest, so its moot at high levels.

If the story you want to tell is of Brave Sir Robin killing Sewer Rats only to run back to the Inn for an hour after getting bit, then back to the sewers to repeat the Sewer Rat Slaying unto infinity (or level 20 in any event), fine. Good luck finding a DM to indulge you or other Players to sit through it.

In short, its only broken if you let it be broken.

 

[Wraith Form]

Approx 45:50 - The term is "wreak havoc," not "wreck havoc" you silly person.

 

[Cybit]

No. Plenty of other classes do it. In fact, I think very few off them can't. Monks self heal, paladins lay on hands, rangers clerics, druids, bards and paladins all get access to Cure Wounds. so far, only the rogue, wizard, sorcerer, and barbarian lack a self heal, ands I wager that might not be our of the realm of impossible that they have one.

Bingo.

Sad thing is, a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid for this conversation when Basic / PHB comes out, and they look at the rest of the classes. The mechanic makes a lot of sense when put in context of the rest of the classes. If a group is allowed to take multiple short rests in a row; the fighter healing is the least of the problems.

 

[Nine Hands]

Interestingly, why did they use this version of second wind. Coz it was popular in the playtest. Well hell of course it was popular, cheesy stuff like this usually is... But that is not a good reason to implement it, when it is clearly spammable free healing, which a sizable portion of the players are going to get cranky over. A very disappointing insight into the design process of second wind... and now I think i better see how ACtion Surge also got through (just straight up poor design, not enough thinking it through from a min maxer perspective). But might be salvaged with DMG options. Just would have been better not to have to manage the issue in the first place.

Do you remember the fighter from the first few playtests? He was an unstoppable killing machine, deflecting attacks, adding damage, and generally causing mayhem. I had one dwarf fighter take on THREE higher level monsters by himself and put them all down. Second Wind and Action Surge are way less powerful than the first few iterations of superiority dice (I think that's what they were called back then).

Speaking of Action Surge, it is pretty cool. My son used it to kill two goblins, move, then kill two more. It was his shining moment of awesome. Don't take that away from him I don't see an issue with the fighter being able to double up once a combat, its a one time haste.

 

[thunktanker]

This means no matter how you narrate HP loss, the fighter is like a troll whose wounds disappear quickly, while the rest of the group just sits there, bleeding and bandaged up. This means my ranger won't ever have to cast Cure Wounds on the fighter. That's stupid

This doesn't even sound like a DM problem; it sounds like a player communication problem. They should try doing what's best for the group instead maximizing whatever is best for the fighter. Silly players. Next time the fighter says he wants to take another short rest, the rest of the group should just say "see ya" and keep going. Don't let that self-centered fighter push you around!

On the other hand, good thing that the ranger doesn't need to cast cure wounds on the fighter, because the rest of this battered group sure needs some help.