D&D 5E D&D Unboxing Starter Set Video is on Youtube

[sidonunspa]

ACtion Surge also got through (just straight up poor design, not enough thinking it through from a min maxer perspective). But might be salvaged with DMG options. Just would have been better not to have to manage the issue in the first place.

Accept that someone even broke it down the numbers using a 10 wizard vs. 10 fighter vs. fighter 2/Wizard 8 and the damage per round numbers came out about even... well except that the fighter/wizard had to use more of it's spell slots, which it had less of... when compared to the fighter that can swing all day long.

the recoil vs. action surge is mostly knee a jerk reaction... much like second wind.

And come on now... it's easy for any GM to limit 2nd wind... for example, can't be used to recover more then 1/2 your hp or can't be used if you are below half your HP.... or hell house rule it as temporary HP and be done with it.

 

[Grazzt]

You don't see a problem with fighters not expending their hit dice to heal but every other class does?

Really? Like, you don't foresee party rhythm issues this causes because of the pressure to take more rests because it saves the fighter's hit dice pool, but doesn't save it for anyone else? It would be like one person in a group having ten surges per day and the others having four, but the guy with ten doesn't even need them most of the time because they have their own surgeless healing, to use 4e-isms.

It's really funny that a mechanic lifted straight out of 4th edition would be designed to not even use the new edition's equivalent of healing surges. Wow, just wow. It's dawning on me how bad this is, I totally agree with Kamikaze.

This is what you get for designing the game only by raw playtest feedback. People out there are not game designers, their feedback should be taken in consideration with that in mind. Design by committee often leads to problems like this.

So house rule it to use HD? Give the fighter bonus HD he can use that count as "second wind". Or remove it entirely and replace it with something else.

 

[sidonunspa]

With this mechanic, they're also better at healing their own wounds than other classes are. That's the unintended effect that has some unfortunate ramifications.

We don't know that for sure, I remember some talk at Origins about clerics being able to recover up to a 6th level spell slot with a short rest, the base cure wounds heals 2d8+2+2d8/spell level used above 1st.

so until we look at all the rules, we are simply guessing

 

[SkidAce]

Remember when this thread was a fun discussion that wasn't already in eight other threads? It was about a cool new product being opened?

Yeah...have some xp for clarity of vision.

 

[Agamon]

Sad thing is, a lot of people are going to look incredibly stupid for this conversation when Basic / PHB comes out, and they look at the rest of the classes. The mechanic makes a lot of sense when put in context of the rest of the classes. If a group is allowed to take multiple short rests in a row; the fighter healing is the least of the problems.

Yep. That's why I hope they didn't change the wording for the short rest, which is at least an hour. Wanna rest a hour and half, go ahead it's a short rest. Two hours? A short rest. Three hours, still just a short rest. That's why it's vaguely called a short rest, not an hour-long rest. It's a rest that takes at least an hour, but longer if you want it to, and here's what happens when you take that rest.

I'm a bit confused that this wasn't the answer to the question in the video, because, to me, that's obviously the rules as intended.

 

[SkidAce]

You are right. My apologies.

I like how they pointed out the rulebook will be useful as a quick reference around the table even after the PHB is available. That reinforces the idea that there are no rules that will be changed between the Starter and the PHB.

I missed that...excellent point, thank you.

 

[SkidAce]

Yep. That's why I hope they didn't change the wording for the short rest, which is at least an hour. Wanna rest a hour and half, go ahead it's a short rest. Two hours? A short rest. Three hours, still just a short rest. That's why it's vaguely called a short rest, not an hour-long rest. It's a rest that takes at least an hour, but longer if you want it to, and here's what happens when you take that rest.

I'm a bit confused that this wasn't the answer to the question in the video, because, to me, that's obviously the rules as intended.

This is the crux of the matter..well put.

 

[1of3]

You don't see a problem with fighters not expending their hit dice to heal but every other class does?

It isn't really different from the spellcasters wanting long rest. You see, it's all balanced nowadays. Everyone can tick of everyone else.

 

[Iosue]

You don't see a problem with fighters not expending their hit dice to heal but every other class does?

I sure don't. Fighters have few enough Nice Things as it is. Making them indomitable powerhouses that just get back up ready to rumble faster than other classes? Awesome. That's why they're fighters. They're always ready for combat.

Like, you don't foresee party rhythm issues this causes because of the pressure to take more rests because it saves the fighter's hit dice pool, but doesn't save it for anyone else? It would be like one person in a group having ten surges per day and the others having four, but the guy with ten doesn't even need them most of the time because they have their own surgeless healing, to use 4e-isms.

Nope, it's not an issue at at. Look, second wind's main utility is in combat. It gives the fighter a boost when no one has access to their hit dice. Out of combat, it can conceivably be used with hit dice to get a fighter back up to maximum at a shorter time. That's good. He's generally going to be in the thick of it more than the other characters.

But if the player is pressuring people to wait 2, 3, 4 hours so they can try to max their HP without using HD, then it just makes more sense to take a full long rest. Then everyone's back to full HP and the casters have their spells, too. So, sure, conceivably a fighter can use Second Wind in this way. Practically? There's no point. There's no pressure to take any more short rests than usual.

 

[Tony Semana]

Yep. That's why I hope they didn't change the wording for the short rest, which is at least an hour. Wanna rest a hour and half, go ahead it's a short rest. Two hours? A short rest. Three hours, still just a short rest. That's why it's vaguely called a short rest, not an hour-long rest. It's a rest that takes at least an hour, but longer if you want it to, and here's what happens when you take that rest.

I'm a bit confused that this wasn't the answer to the question in the video, because, to me, that's obviously the rules as intended.

This is the crux of the matter..well put.

Seconded! Though this was raised and ignored in other threads as well. Ultimately I'm just as happy with Mike's response of (paraphrasing) "if players want to play a boring game and be bored then we're not going to prevent that" and "it's a table problem, or maybe it's not a table problem". Because it's true that, in the end, if that's the way the entire table agrees to interpret the rules then that's what's fun for the table and there ISN'T a problem with the rules.